Philips Hue too bright as nightlight - alternative? Hue Go? Osram?
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I haven't been considering incandescent lights, or anything with a "white" light spectrum for that matter, because I figure they contain some blue light even when dimmed. Maybe I'm wrong about this, I don't know. Do you know of a resource of information that explains this - the types of lights to buy to minimize sleep and melatonin disruption?
So I've been looking for lights that are red or orange - as far away from blue as possible. And since I want something portable with a battery, it almost certainly means LEDs are my only option.
Since I couldn't find anything cheap on Amazon that will do what I want, I am now leaning towards the Philips Hue Go (unless I discover an alternative) and the Philips hub so that I can adjust the dimming level down to a minimum. Maybe I'll even get a couple more Hue bulbs to install in the kitchen and living room which will automatically dim and shift to red colors at sunset (assuming they can be programmed to do that).
Basically I'm trying to simulate a natural (i.e. pre-industrialization) lighting environment in my apartment, and am interested in seeing if this improves the quality of my sleep.
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I also got the impression that the Low Blue Lights products are designed with some science in mind. They have a light spectrum curve for the bulb on their web site which shows that it gives out light in a very tight range of wavelengths only and no blue.
I'm actually not intending to use them in my bedroom I plan to place them around my apartment and turn them on after sunset, and turn off all other lights. So it's actually good news for me that they are a bit brighter. I was worried that they would be too dim.
I assumed that the bulbs could be used in any candelabra fixture. They don't mention anything on their web site that the bulb must be used only in the fixture that they sell. I guess I'll find out when they arrive. Thanks for the warning.
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@nielkfj said in Philips Hue too bright as nightlight - alternative? Hue Go? Osram?:
I also got the impression that the Low Blue Lights products are designed with some science in mind. They have a light spectrum curve for the bulb on their web site which shows that it gives out light in a very tight range of wavelengths only and no blue.
I'm actually not intending to use them in my bedroom I plan to place them around my apartment and turn them on after sunset, and turn off all other lights. So it's actually good news for me that they are a bit brighter. I was worried that they would be too dim.
I assumed that the bulbs could be used in any candelabra fixture. They don't mention anything on their web site that the bulb must be used only in the fixture that they sell. I guess I'll find out when they arrive. Thanks for the warning.
These Low Blue Lights night lights only need half a watt, so it might be that my touch lamp is unable to deliver such a low power through its socket. So, it might not be a problem with a fixture that has a max of 4W.
Anyway, yeah, the Low Blue Lights company seems to be just about the only one who actually pays attention to the science, instead of simply making lights that look like they have little or no blue light.
Even so, blue light can be harmless if it's dim enough. Consider moon light. For this reason, I recommend getting very good incandescent light bulbs and dimmers to replace your regular switches. My bulb of choice will always be Aero-Tech's rough service bulbs. Check them out! http://lightbulb.aerolights.com/viewitems/aero-tech-bulbs-made-in-the-usa-20-000-hours/-a-series-light-bulbs-rough-service-20-000-hours
When dimmed, they produce a very nice warm glow. Sure, they're not amber or orange, nor are they designed to produce low amounts of blue light (they happen to naturally have low amounts anyway), but when dimmed down very low, they feel very safe to me. I mean, they don't feel alerting at all. You might even see some customer reviews on Amazon of people complaining they're too orange! LOL I only have 3 x 75W 20,000-hour bulbs, and they're in my bathroom on the dimmer switch, and all I can say is, I'm EXTREMELY glad I did that. I love these light bulbs!!
So, it's not really all about avoiding blue light at night entirely. You actually don't have to be absolutely perfect with your blue light avoidance. As long as the light is very dim, it should be 100% "safe" because a very dim light produces much less blue light (likely harmless amounts) than a bright one simply because 100% of its light output is reduced - kind of like dimming a monitor super low when you don't have f.lux - it's better than keeping it bright because dimming any light source naturally also reduces the amount of blue light being produced since all of the light is being reduced.
I think that even with these Low Blue Light night lights, you could probably easily disrupt or prevent melatonin production if you were to get up close to them and just stare at it for a few minutes. I really do. They're bright. I've found that any light is potentially stimulating and "alerting" if it's bright enough, even if it is 100% perfectly red. The only thing I'm going by here is just how light makes me feel.
To go a little deeper into the brightness of light, I have some 40W equivalent red LEDs made by FEIT that the f.lux team also purchased to analyze them with their expensive spectrum analyzer and found that they are the least alerting red lights they've ever analyzed because they are almost 100% perfectly red with nothing else in the spectrum whatsoever. They should be too because they are Wildlife Lighting certified. Even so, I find a very noticeable difference when I turn the light off to perfectly pitch black darkness. Or, if I wake up in the middle of the night and turn this light on. It's so bright that I personally feel a little stimulated and I don't like it. It makes me think that my melatonin production is probably being disrupted! It's just bright even though the only spectrum it's producing is pure red.
Anyway, I feel that this is getting confusing because now I don't really know what I'm saying. I guess I'm saying you don't have to be quite so careful to avoid blue light, especially if the light you're being exposed to isn't too bright.
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So, first off, apologies for not replying to those kind enough to help me out a year or so ago. I was extremely busy with a baby (which is why I wanted a night light) and preparing to move country.
To update you all a year later on my experiences, I think that in most situations Hue bulbs would work perfectly well for a night light. The reason I wanted something particularly dim was just for feeding my baby in the middle of the night. At 2am, with shutters closed, our night vision becomes surprisingly acute and what looks like a dim light at any other time is too bright. All I wanted was enough light to see little more than a silhouette of the bottle, 90ml of premix formula, pour the formula into the bottle and see enough of my baby to put the bottle in her mouth.
The Hue bulb, even on its lowest reddest setting, was disturbing my wife and baby and waking me up more than necessary. I found a solution by positioning the lamp in a way that gave me enough light without spreading it around the room but I'd have preferred a bulb that went even dimmer.
In all honesty, I don't think that any of the other products suggested here would do even as good a job as Hue. They certainly don't look like they'd go any dimmer. That said, they're worth exploring especially if you don't want to shell out for a Hue system.
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I'm giving your suggestion some serious consideration.
I have also read or heard somewhere that the light intensity (brightness), not just the color can cause melatonin disruption. Really I want to achieve both low intensity and minimal blue light, so I was looking at an LED where I can change the color to red and dim to low levels.
However, after a bit of googling it appears that incandescent bulbs essentially do exactly this. It appears they are already naturally shifted to the red spectrum at full power. Then when they are dimmed I believe they shift even further to red. I don't know this for sure, but just with the naked eye you can see that the light becomes more orange colored when they are dimmed down low. So probably the light spectrum is shifting to red. So this seems to show that there is very little blue light remaining in the spectrum. I'm going to post this as a question in another thread on this forum to see if I can get more info on this.
Thinking about it, using dimmer switches and incandescent bulbs would be a much simpler solution from a usability standpoint - no need to mess around with my phone to use the lights. Installation would also be relatively straight forward. I would just need to install dimmer switches on one light in my kitchen, bathroom, living room and bedroom. And the dimming performance should be as good or better than an LED, and the cost will be about the same. So this could be the way to go.
About your problem with the Low Blue Lights bulbs. It might be that they are not compatible with your touch lamps. Their web site says they are not compatible with dimmers, so if your touch lamp has three step dimming this might be the problem.
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Thanks for the feedback. From my own research it does seem like the Hue Go is the most flexible portable light on the market from a dimmability and color selection standpoint. Although to achieve the low range dimmability the hub must also be purchased (as far as I know). Also, there is also no other competing product from the major manufacturers (GE, Sylvania, Feit etc.). The only portable lamps that are somewhat similar are cheap Asian brands that don't have the same range of flexibility.
However, I'm now leaning towards using my existing light fixtures and ditching the portable lamp solution. I'm looking at either using incandescent lights and simply installing good quality dimmer switches that can reach a low range, or a smart light system where I can select the light color and also dim to low levels. Not sure which one I'll go with yet.
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@nielkfj You'd probably love the fluxometer website (just add '.com' to the end of that). Go to the lights section in the top left menu, and find "halogen dim" and look into candle etc.
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Thanks for the suggestion. When I compare the "Halogen" and "Halogen Very Dim" curves it does show that the "Halogen Very Dim" spectrum is shifted to red, and blue light is a smaller fraction than on the "Halogen" curve. And I believe halogen bulbs are basically the same as incandescent.
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@nielkfj They are very similar light sources, but most "A-shape" halogens are made to produce a brighter white, and be slightly more power efficient as well. I use a few, but I switch light sources a bit, so lights get rotated a lot. At this rate, all my lights will last about 200 years.
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If you don't want to sink a lot of cash into a low-brightness color changing LED light, there are several <$10 Amazon. An example is ASIN B01BLXSVFA which I've had about a year or so. The only thing I don't like about it is that it switches to color changing mode whenever the power goes out or you unplug/plug.
It's a 3W bulb, perfect for a night stand probably on the order of a 20w bulb. I leave it set on the orange color.
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A 3W LED light should be about as bright as a 40W incandescent light bulb. The illusion of the brightness can vary depending on the color. Blue will seem the brightest and red will seem the dimmest. Of course, the wattage efficiency of the LED light comes into play as well. Less efficiency results in less light output.
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I am interested in Hue Go, but not sure if it is helpful for sleep
