Is it bad that I've been using f.lux on the same setting all day?
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@honame1980 said:
I have the same question and I wonder whether is good or bad for the eyes to keep f.lux the whole day activated. Or, is it bad for the circadian cycle? for sleeping? any ideas? thanks a lot!
If your monitor were your only source of light from the second you wake up to the second you fall asleep, then yeah it would be a bad idea. If you are getting enough daylight during the day, then there's nothing wrong with it. You gotta do what you prefer, just as long as you're not depriving yourself of what you need, and what you need is the same thing we all need: plenty of daylight each and every day. Without that, our body's circadian system doesn't have a clue. It's critical to wake up and get exposed to lots of daylight for an absolute minimum of 10 minutes right away. It's also critical to use dim warm-colored light at night. Of course, if you're like me and you are unable to have a regular schedule, then just do what you can with the time of day you wake up and the time of day you go to sleep.
The original goal of F.lux was simply for making it easier for us to avoid alerting blue light when we are trying to unwind at night. So, f.lux enables us to still use our computer at night without being blasted by alerting light. Of course, since f.lux's creation, we have discovered other uses, such as reducing eyestrain for more sensitive eyes.
So, if you have a decently-healthy lifestyle where you aren't spending every waking second at your computer in a dark room (and some people do that), then you can use f.lux however you want and it won't really matter - except for the way you use it at night, provided that you are taking all possible measures to use dim warm-colored light everywhere. F.lux would be pointless if you're using it hardcore at night but you're still watching a bright blue TV with bright indoor lighting - or worse yet, bright "daylight"-colored lights (roughly 5000K).
What bothers me is that some people think that f.lux is magic, that if they're using it, then they don't have to worry about anything else. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's an assistant, just as I said. It enables us to still use our computer when we are already taking all possible measures to avoid bright blue alerting light.
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I agree with lorna you need daylight too. Strong dark cycles. But the question is...that is your normal monitor light equal to daylight or is is just irritating as it is. And f.lux after sunset just makes it much calmer with the filtering
So if the latter is true then using the sunset setting on f.lux all day would mean a better relaxed eyes and overall relaxation.
Now does the f.lux setting induce sleep? I guess not.
I am assuming it just filters out the light and keeps it at a temp that will not disrupt your sleep.
So keeping it all day if all those variables are true should be actually better. I hope someone from f.lux can confirm these -
@TwoCables said:
@honame1980 said:
I have the same question and I wonder whether is good or bad for the eyes to keep f.lux the whole day activated. Or, is it bad for the circadian cycle? for sleeping? any ideas? thanks a lot!
If your monitor were your only source of light from the second you wake up to the second you fall asleep, then yeah it would be a bad idea. If you are getting enough daylight during the day, then there's nothing wrong with it. You gotta do what you prefer, just as long as you're not depriving yourself of what you need, and what you need is the same thing we all need: plenty of daylight each and every day. Without that, our body's circadian system doesn't have a clue. It's critical to wake up and get exposed to lots of daylight for an absolute minimum of 10 minutes right away. It's also critical to use dim warm-colored light at night. Of course, if you're like me and you are unable to have a regular schedule, then just do what you can with the time of day you wake up and the time of day you go to sleep.
I think that having your monitor as your only source of light is a bad idea. Using f.lux on it would still be ok. He just needs to go out and get some natural sunlight I don't think a monitor light is equal to natural light. I think you have explained it in the rest of your comment. f.lux is not magic. It does not do anything to make you sleep I just filters stuff that would hamper your sleep.
So I think I am starting to conclude using it all day could post no problem if what assumptions I have made in my other comment to this post is true. -
@rawraj said:
I agree with lorna you need daylight too. Strong dark cycles. But the question is...that is your normal monitor light equal to daylight or is is just irritating as it is. And f.lux after sunset just makes it much calmer with the filtering
So if the latter is true then using the sunset setting on f.lux all day would mean a better relaxed eyes and overall relaxation.
Now does the f.lux setting induce sleep? I guess not.
I am assuming it just filters out the light and keeps it at a temp that will not disrupt your sleep.
So keeping it all day if all those variables are true should be actually better. I hope someone from f.lux can confirm theseF.lux isn't capable of inducing sleep. No software is. That's the body's job. F.lux is simply something that enables us to use our computer (or other compatible device) before going to bed at night without being exposed to the alerting bright blue light because f.lux is capable of blocking such light. However, even though F.lux is capable of blocking the entire spectrum that can disrupt melatonin production (provided you have it set to like say 3400K or warmer at night), it can be completely useless and pointless to have f.lux at all if you're still being exposed to such light from other sources. Those other sources can be your indoor lighting, your T.V., your tablet computer, your phone, etc. Too many people think that as long as they are using f.lux, they're fine, even though they're still being exposed to very alerting light from other sources before going to bed. It's like they think f.lux is a magic bullet or something.
The color of the light you're exposed to isn't the only important thing to take into consideration: you also have to watch the brightness. Even pure red light can be too "alerting" if it's too bright. It's just due to human evolution, spending thousands upon thousands of years on this planet without any sort of artificial light except for fire - until recently. After being on this planet for that long without artificial light (the ability to have bright light after sunset), it's impossible to avoid the body's natural reaction to bright light, even if the only color in that light is red. So, it's extremely important to use the lowest tolerable brightness for ALL light at night, especially for the more alerting light sources due to having too much blue light in the spectrum of light they produce. When it's not possible to reduce the brightness of an alerting light source, that light should be avoided - even if it's from a T.V. or other device.
So, let's say that you've done an excellent job of making sure that you aren't exposed to ANY alerting type of light at night but you forgot about your computer/tablet/phone/other device - except you don't know it yet. Let's pretend that this is your first day doing this and tonight is your first night to experience your new setup. Now the sun is setting and so you go around the house changing it over to what you could call "night mode" for the first time, meaning you have made sure NOTHING will expose you to alerting light of any kind that could disrupt your melatonin production, or stop it once it has begun. You've done your research into the color and the brightness, and when you're done changing it over to "night mode", everything is perfect. However, then you go to use your computer/tablet/phone/other device. Right away, you're like, "Wow that's bright! Crap. Now what?" This is where f.lux comes in. It gives us the freedom/ability to use our technology before going to bed at night without it causing our melatonin production to be interrupted.
Melatonin isn't what induces sleep though. Melatonin is always in the body; it's the amount of melatonin that does it, and when that amount reaches a certain level, the body senses it and begins producing chemicals that make us relaxed and sleepy, thereby enabling good sleep, the kind that's restful and restorative where you wake up 5-7 hours later feeling good. From my understanding, when the melatonin production has increased, it can take 2-3 hours for that level to reach the level that triggers the body to produce those chemicals. So if you delay it or interrupt it right before bed or if you interrupt it in the middle of the night, then guess what: you'll have to wait another 2-3 hours. You might still be able to sleep, but the quality of that sleep will be reduced! You might also have a hard time staying asleep, or it might take longer to fall asleep - or both.
Of course, light isn't the only thing that can be alerting. Loud sounds can be just as alerting, and of course the activities we choose can be alerting too. Relaxing and calming our mind and body combined with reducing and eliminating everything that's alerting can make it possible to easily fall asleep, stay asleep, and wake up feeling great. However, there's one more thing to consider: eating and drinking (beverages of any kind). Sleep experts and sleep researchers have learned that we should wait a minimum of 3 hours after eating before going to sleep so that the body isn't still trying to digest our food when we're trying to sleep. I have found this to be true. If I eat a meal and then go to bed right away, I find that my sleep sucks, I might have nightmares, I might wake up in the middle of the night way too warm or hot, and I also find that my digestion is slowed WAY down because I usually still feel full when I finally get out of bed 5-7 hours later - as though I just ate! While this can seem like it would be a convenient body hack so that you don't need to spend time eating breakfast, it's not worth sacrificing something that's far more important: SLEEP.
So as you can see, f.lux is just a small part of the big picture.
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@rawraj said:
@TwoCables said:
@honame1980 said:
I have the same question and I wonder whether is good or bad for the eyes to keep f.lux the whole day activated. Or, is it bad for the circadian cycle? for sleeping? any ideas? thanks a lot!
If your monitor were your only source of light from the second you wake up to the second you fall asleep, then yeah it would be a bad idea. If you are getting enough daylight during the day, then there's nothing wrong with it. You gotta do what you prefer, just as long as you're not depriving yourself of what you need, and what you need is the same thing we all need: plenty of daylight each and every day. Without that, our body's circadian system doesn't have a clue. It's critical to wake up and get exposed to lots of daylight for an absolute minimum of 10 minutes right away. It's also critical to use dim warm-colored light at night. Of course, if you're like me and you are unable to have a regular schedule, then just do what you can with the time of day you wake up and the time of day you go to sleep.
I think that having your monitor as your only source of light is a bad idea. Using f.lux on it would still be ok. He just needs to go out and get some natural sunlight I don't think a monitor light is equal to natural light. I think you have explained it in the rest of your comment. f.lux is not magic. It does not do anything to make you sleep I just filters stuff that would hamper your sleep.
So I think I am starting to conclude using it all day could post no problem if what assumptions I have made in my other comment to this post is true.Please read my post again. I am not recommending having your computer monitor being your only source of light.
Anyway, yes, you can use f.lux set to an extremely warm color all day without any problems provided that you are being exposed to daylight for several hours each day, especially as soon as you wake up. Being outside is best (obviously), but when that's not possible, allow as much daylight into your home as possible - again, especially as soon as it's time for you to get out of bed. This is critical for creating a proper circadian rhythm.
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@TwoCables Yes that is true. NO I was not saying that you are suggesting that your computer should be the source of light. It was a part of your comment so I divided the two and said that yeah I agree only that part is a wrong idea(which you are also were saying is a wrong idea) I hope I am clear now and did end up being more confusing :-).
What I was saying that having .flux at night settings all day is not going to affect ur circardian rythms it will just be relaxing.
Unless ofcourse the person only source of light is the monitor which is wrong by itself.
When you are getting enough day light having computer TV and Mobiles at "night" setting of .flux is only good for you.
Some glass manufacturer do say their orange glasses through out the day will help get better sleep at night.
Circadian rythm is affected both by light and temperature.
So its important to have that temperature dip at night. If the temperature is too high or your house is not release the heat it took the entire day then you can have it mess ur circadian rythms.
Also light is responsible even if your eyes are closed.
I have experience (and my friends too) a major difference in sleep after shutting out all lights. I put tape over my AC LED light and switches and a coin on my numlock Led(My computer is 24/7 on. and Put a post it note on my Led in the cabinet.
I also have an external HArd driver which I cover too.
Putting dark curtains to block out any street light and you sleep like a baby.
As its easily observable that these lights don't hit the eye . my computer is near my feet and my AC is also behind me out of the sigh of my vision. While the LED lights can be really bright once you are used to sleeping this way.
But earlier they used not affect me. When I did not have sleeping problems.
I have slept with my monitor on and my lights on all the time I have slept with my tubelight on for almost 1 decade.
It all catches Up I think reducing your Melatonin production and one fine day the shit hits the ceiling and you can't sleep anymore(thats my take based on my experience).
But the science shows that if the light hits your skin your circadian rythms will mess up.
Another tip for the OP is to gaze at the sun. Everyday in morning. Preferably Before 10.
Start slowly with eyes closed "look" at the sun for atleast a minute and get inside before you get sunburnt. Take D supplements or better still get a test done if ur levels are low take shots.
Then you will be able to stay in the sun for long. Slowly increase the time till you reach 45 minutes If you can 20 minutes is also enough does wonders for sleep.
I stopped doing all that once my sleep problems were solved but thanks to this post I remembered now I should be doing this. I have recommended it to so many people and they found it helpful and now when I faces the problem again I just forgot about this one.(I think u already read my long post on my problems -
@rawraj There is no science that shows that light hitting skin changes circadian rhythms. The single study suggesting that light on the back of the knee had an effect on circadian timing has been soundly disproven.
I am going to make a general request that everyone please be careful about giving medical advice on this forum - it's not okay to do that. Everyone's biology and needs are different. By all means, share what worked for you, but remember that what works for you may be quite harmful to someone else.
We know that many people don't have a strong enough light / dark cycle, but things like advising vitamin injections goes far outside the bounds of this forum. Finally, gazing at the sun is a guaranteed way to permanently injure your retina. A much safer way to help reduce photophobia would be to eat more lutein and zeaxanthin rich vegetables, and even still, people who are concerned about this should talk to an eye doctor or an MD for advice.
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@lorna said:
@rawraj There is no science that shows that light hitting skin changes circadian rhythms. The single study suggesting that light on the back of the knee had an effect on circadian timing has been soundly disproven.
I am going to make a general request that everyone please be careful about giving medical advice on this forum - it's not okay to do that. Everyone's biology and needs are different. By all means, share what worked for you, but remember that what works for you may be quite harmful to someone else.
We know that many people don't have a strong enough light / dark cycle, but things like advising vitamin injections goes far outside the bounds of this forum. Finally, gazing at the sun is a guaranteed way to permanently injure your retina. A much safer way to help reduce photophobia would be to eat more lutein and zeaxanthin rich vegetables, and even still, people who are concerned about this should talk to an eye doctor or an MD for advice.
Just for the record I have taken Vitamin D supplements under supervision of the doctor. I think I should have added that do it after consulting with your doctor. I thought that would be expected. You need to visit your doctor to do tests anyways.
I don't know if the OP is suffering from PhotoPhobia. People with Vit D deficiency get sunburnt and cannot look at the sun and that is more common than photophobia.
A lot of research has been disproven especially in VIT D and skin studies and Sleep cause it cause huge loses to BIG PHARMA.
Studies have shown that Sunscreen causes cancer but I am sure that has been disproven too
I won't be surprised if there is already a study that disproves that these light filters help in any way to sleep better. If not then the day people start posting....I got off my sleep meds after using .flux u sure will see a lot of studies calling this a hoax trust me ;-)
Yeah but lets not go there.
BTW D production is focuses around exposure around the eyes. Studies have shown(yeah not as promoted) that wearing dark glasses while sun bathing reduced D production a lot.
What I am saying is lets not get dogmatic.
Its my mistake I should be just sharing what worked for me rather than telling others to do the same. They can consult with their doctor and try it if their doctor says its ok. -
@rawraj Please, no "big pharma" nonsense, this forum isn't the place for it.
Vitamin D is made from sunlight hitting skin, the sun does not need to hit your eyes or face for this to work. There is no shift in circadian timing from shining bright light anywhere other than the eyes. The researchers who disproved that study are working every day to advance our understanding of human health. I know several of them personally, and it's simply offensive for someone to suggest that this work has anything to do with anything other than furthering the science.
Circadian biology is incredibly complex and what works for one individual often doesn't for another. For some sets of people f.lux may be less effective. For other sets of people, it is likely to be extremely effective. I am very happy to hear that you seem to be having a positive result from using f.lux. Our interest is in helping everyone become more aware of how seeing bright light affects their circadian rhythm, and in turn, their health. The key is figuring out how to get the right light to each person at the right time of day and anyone who tells you they have an easy answer is probably trying to sell you something you don't need (and that probably doesn't work!).
@lorna
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@lorna said:
@rawraj Please, no "big pharma" nonsense, this forum isn't the place for it.
Vitamin D is made from sunlight hitting skin, the sun does not need to hit your eyes or face for this to work. There is no shift in circadian timing from shining bright light anywhere other than the eyes. The researchers who disproved that study are working every day to advance our understanding of human health. I know several of them personally, and it's simply offensive for someone to suggest that this work has anything to do with anything other than furthering the science.
Circadian biology is incredibly complex and what works for one individual often doesn't for another. For some sets of people f.lux may be less effective. For other sets of people, it is likely to be extremely effective. I am very happy to hear that you seem to be having a positive result from using f.lux. Our interest is in helping everyone become more aware of how seeing bright light affects their circadian rhythm, and in turn, their health. The key is figuring out how to get the right light to each person at the right time of day and anyone who tells you they have an easy answer is probably trying to sell you something you don't need (and that probably doesn't work!).
Let's not forget though that f.lux can be ineffective if you're still being exposed to alerting blue light from other sources, especially after turning the computer off. What I'm saying is, let's say someone does the best job possible using f.lux to their advantage but they are still using Daylight lights (5000K) in their house. As soon as they turn the computer off to go to bed, they will be exposed to their highly-alerting Daylight lights.
Take my parents for example: they could have f.lux on their computer but it wouldn't do them any good because they have Daylight lights in the kitchen, in their bedroom, and in their bathroom - and they're ridiculously bright (they hate dim light because then it's too hard to see). They also watch T.V. on a big bright LCD T.V., and they do so right up until it's time to go to bed.
So, f.lux is really only worth using if you're also trying to avoid alerting light everywhere else in your home (and if you're doing a good job of it).
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@TwoCables Yes, exactly! And generally (most, as with everything there are exceptions) people over the age of 65 don't need to worry as much about seeing too much bright light at night as they do about not seeing enough bright light during the day. Infants' lenses are nearly crystalline, they let every visible wavelength and some UV straight through. Then, teenagers are incredibly biologically sensitive to the affects of artificial light at night, and pre-teens even more so. But there are very real differences person to person. These are all active areas of research.
