Your diet may be the reason you have trouble sleeping.
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Another update: for the first time in over a month, I actually slept for a solid 7 hours (it was almost a solid 8 hours). I think my body has finally eliminated 100% of the TBHQ! I'm also feeling even better than I did when I posted the update above.
So yeah, please avoid TBHQ and all other related ingredients.
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@twocables it's been a while, are you still unable to keep a 24h schedule, or has this gotten better? To be clear I'm not referring to this post but the sleeping situation you've discussed in the past.
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@tungsten_smooth said in Your diet may be the reason you have trouble sleeping.:
@twocables it's been a while, are you still unable to keep a 24h schedule, or has this gotten better? To be clear I'm not referring to this post but the sleeping situation you've discussed in the past.
I think it's a lifelong thing. I'm 39 years old and I remember always having an extremely difficult time with a consistent schedule. I'm recalling my days in school (kindergarten through 12th grade), and then my days when I had full-time jobs. I would always stay up too late because I just never felt like sleeping. The only reason I ever went to bed was I knew I had to or else I'd have to spend the next day with no sleep at all. So, I always felt forced into sleeping when I knew I could easily stay up for hours and hours and hours. Come to think of it, that's what I did during the summer breaks when I was in school. I still remember being up all night and almost all day the next day very easily on a regular basis.
I can easily stay awake for over 24 hours every day, so perhaps I come from a different planet where the days are much, much longer! LOL :) Sometimes though I do start feeling somewhat sleepy or tired after around 18 hours, but I have made a few attempts over the last 10-15 years to get on a consistent schedule where I always sleep at night and am awake during the day. Each attempt failed, always resulting in me doing fine for the first day or two, but then I gradually degrade to the point where I just can't keep it going and I crash.
So for right now in my life at least, I have to just stay awake until I don't want to stay awake any longer, and then sleep until I don't want to sleep any longer. That way, I always feel great while I'm awake.
Anyway, this reply can serve as another update with great news because I'm still sleeping very soundly thanks to removing TBHQ from my diet. It still kinda blows my mind that I was unable to sleep for longer than 45 minutes to an hour at a time, and now I can easily find myself sleeping for a solid 6-8 hours with no interruptions.
I do have another ingredient to report though: Annatto. I have a vaguely similar reaction with a sleep disturbance from it, but at worst it limits me to just ~3-4 hours of sleep at a time. It's nowhere near as bad as TBHQ. Strangely, I had what I would consider a fairly large dose of Annatto recently and it didn't hurt my sleep at all. I slept for a solid ~7 hours. I would've kept sleeping, but I was jolted out of sleep by a loud noise. LOL Oh well. :)
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@twocables I think you're non-24. Have you had any sleep studies or blood tests to check for what may be the cause?
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@tungsten_smooth said in Your diet may be the reason you have trouble sleeping.:
@twocables I think you're non-24. Have you had any sleep studies or blood tests to check for what may be the cause?
The problem is that I don't do anything while I'm awake to become tired enough so that I only last for ~18 hours like most people who lead busy lives. So, the solution is for me to just wear myself out while I'm awake by just doing more stuff - but I don't want to.
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@twocables I don't think that's always how it will work. I think we should start getting sleepy after the sun goes down. I'm sure there's more to it though.
So you're saying you believe you have the ability to live on a 24h schedule but you don't almost by choice? I recommend a sleep study if you have the insurance to cover it, or as you say try exercising outside every day for the next two weeks. There's your next experiment!
Every day, go outside and maybe go for a walk / run etc. Then you'll know for certain if low activity is the culprit.
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@tungsten_smooth said in Your diet may be the reason you have trouble sleeping.:
@twocables I don't think that's always how it will work. I think we should start getting sleepy after the sun goes down. I'm sure there's more to it though.
So you're saying you believe you have the ability to live on a 24h schedule but you don't almost by choice? I recommend a sleep study if you have the insurance to cover it, or as you say try exercising outside every day for the next two weeks. There's your next experiment!
Every day, go outside and maybe go for a walk / run etc. Then you'll know for certain if low activity is the culprit.
I sincerely thank you for all of your concern and sincerely thank you for caring about me, but I'm fine. If I'm not fine, then I'm sure I will be sooner or later one way or another. We all gotta do what we all gotta do.
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food is zeitgeber, like light, and when we eat is more important then what.
TED: Health lies in healthy circadian habits - Satchin Panda
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I know all about the importance of timing for meals, but thank you. It wasn't the issue, I assure you (I always time my meals quite well due to what I know about the importance of the timing). It's well-documented that TBHQ is a sleep inhibitor.
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Curious if you compared with a similar snack with the same amount of sodium/carbs/etc.
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@herf said in Your diet may be the reason you have trouble sleeping.:
Curious if you compared with a similar snack with the same amount of sodium/carbs/etc.
As I said, all of the other ingredients in Cheez-Its are found in other things in my daily diet. The only ingredient not in anything else was the TBHQ. Also, again, there's plenty of research showing that TBHQ causes problems with sleeping.
It has been 20 days since I made this thread, and I'm still not experiencing the same problem sleeping that I experienced during the ~1 month of time where I was eating roughly 60 Cheez-Its every day.
If you guys really doubt me, then add about 60 Cheez-Its to your diet every day. If after a few days or a couple of weeks you begin noticing that it's more difficult to sleep, then stop eating the Cheez-Its and wait a few days. You will regain your ability to sleep soundly. You will also feel better while you're awake, and it's not entirely due to sleeping better. TBHQ is also known to cause behavioral problems as well.
Believe me, I have added way more sodium and carbohydrates to my diet before than what I was getting from the Cheez-Its (like huge daily servings of Tostitos with roughly 7 ounces of Tostitos salsa), but during those times I still slept fine for the most part.
Here's another thing: I don't remember TBHQ being on the list of ingredients for Cheez-Its several years ago, and there was a time where I could eat WAY more than just 60 Cheez-Its per day and still have no problems sleeping.
Just review the research on TBHQ and how it affects the ability to sleep. It's worse than that though. Just Google the ingredient.
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Hi!
I know this topic is old, but I just last night had the same experience with Chees-It. I have sleep problems in that it is hard to go to sleep. So I am up until I feel like I can't be up anymore. Then, I can fall asleep.I am 73 and I know that as you get older some people have sleep problema. My mother did, but not as bad as myself. She slept lightly for hours and could hear all sounds and noises, but was able to lay there, eyes closed, until she was finally in a deeper sleep. I know in these years, I need 8 hours of sleep. I am still mentally active, sitting on boards, assisting in planning a large conference, organizing my meet-up group, and oeganizing for another. In fact, I want to go back to work.
Anyway, some nights when I know I ate a very light dinner, I eat a snack before going.to bed. Maybe a small glass of milk with toast. Maybe a small amount of veggie or a small piece of meat on a half slice of bread from dinner leftovers. I use to eat cheeze-its all the time, sometimes in the evening and never had a problem. I decided to stop a long time ago just because they are not the best thing to eat, especially as a substitute for a more fuller dinner . A couple of days ago, guess I went to the grocery store hungry.
I saw the cheeze-its and decided to buy a box. I decided to try the "Grooves" for the first time. Last night, late, I tried them and ate maybe 15-18. I went to sleep. I also started walking again yesterday, especially since we are shut in now due to the virus. Walked about 1 1/2 miles in a little under 1/2 hour. Hadn't done this since the fall. I use to walk daily. So I was sure I would get a good night's sleep.
I was tired and sleepy. It was late. I tossed and turned half asleep for quiet a while. At some point, I finally settled down into a better sleep. I had unintentionally set my clock and it rang a couple of hours ago. I wome up. According to my health app, I had slept 4 hrs 40 minutes. Normally with that amount of sleep, I wouldn't have heard my clock alarm and would have slept through.
I felt pretty lousy and wondered what kept me from going to sleep earlier when I was so tired, and then why I woke so easily after insufficient sleep. I am very sensitive to caffeine, and felt like I had had some, felt still a little stimulated, I thought back through my day, checking for a soda or bit of coffe, but no.
The box of cheese-its was on my night stand. Since they were a different line (Grooves), I picked it up to check the contents. I recognized everything as the usual -- except TBHQ. I looked it up and here I am, shocked to see the similarities in the TBHQ original post. The box lists garlic, onion, paprika, ground celery seed (?), etc., but also additionally lists the word "spices." I am suspicious of that. Why weren't those spices also listed? I know that when some are brewed, they can be a strong sedative, so also maybe a stimulant? I will write the cheese-it company to ask about "spicecs" but until I hear more from the company or learn something different, I will blame the TBHQ, and will do further research on that.
Just thought you should know. Thanks.
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@yvonne said in Your diet may be the reason you have trouble sleeping.:
Hi!
I know this topic is old, but I just last night had the same experience with Chees-It. I have sleep problems in that it is hard to go to sleep. So I am up until I feel like I can't be up anymore. Then, I can fall asleep.I am 73 and I know that as you get older some people have sleep problema. My mother did, but not as bad as myself. She slept lightly for hours and could hear all sounds and noises, but was able to lay there, eyes closed, until she was finally in a deeper sleep. I know in these years, I need 8 hours of sleep. I am still mentally active, sitting on boards, assisting in planning a large conference, organizing my meet-up group, and oeganizing for another. In fact, I want to go back to work.
Anyway, some nights when I know I ate a very light dinner, I eat a snack before going.to bed. Maybe a small glass of milk with toast. Maybe a small amount of veggie or a small piece of meat on a half slice of bread from dinner leftovers. I use to eat cheeze-its all the time, sometimes in the evening and never had a problem. I decided to stop a long time ago just because they are not the best thing to eat, especially as a substitute for a more fuller dinner . A couple of days ago, guess I went to the grocery store hungry.
I saw the cheeze-its and decided to buy a box. I decided to try the "Grooves" for the first time. Last night, late, I tried them and ate maybe 15-18. I went to sleep. I also started walking again yesterday, especially since we are shut in now due to the virus. Walked about 1 1/2 miles in a little under 1/2 hour. Hadn't done this since the fall. I use to walk daily. So I was sure I would get a good night's sleep.
I was tired and sleepy. It was late. I tossed and turned half asleep for quiet a while. At some point, I finally settled down into a better sleep. I had unintentionally set my clock and it rang a couple of hours ago. I wome up. According to my health app, I had slept 4 hrs 40 minutes. Normally with that amount of sleep, I wouldn't have heard my clock alarm and would have slept through.
I felt pretty lousy and wondered what kept me from going to sleep earlier when I was so tired, and then why I woke so easily after insufficient sleep. I am very sensitive to caffeine, and felt like I had had some, felt still a little stimulated, I thought back through my day, checking for a soda or bit of coffe, but no.
The box of cheese-its was on my night stand. Since they were a different line (Grooves), I picked it up to check the contents. I recognized everything as the usual -- except TBHQ. I looked it up and here I am, shocked to see the similarities in the TBHQ original post. The box lists garlic, onion, paprika, ground celery seed (?), etc., but also additionally lists the word "spices." I am suspicious of that. Why weren't those spices also listed? I know that when some are brewed, they can be a strong sedative, so also maybe a stimulant? I will write the cheese-it company to ask about "spicecs" but until I hear more from the company or learn something different, I will blame the TBHQ, and will do further research on that.
Just thought you should know. Thanks.
Thank you for sharing! The culprit is absolutely 100% without a doubt the TBHQ. I did extensive research on this and found that this stuff is extremely harmful to human health, and in the smaller quantity contained in a serving of Cheez-Its, it can cause extreme sleep disturbances such as what you experienced and such as what I experienced.
While doing the research, I discovered that the company who makes this so-called snack has been questioned and complained to about this several times since the day they began using TBHQ, and so far, it seems they just don’t give a shit. So, I recommend that you don’t waste your time complaining to them or asking them any questions. Just stop buying their products.
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@TwoCables This reply is being written long after your thread was posted, but contains an important health-check heads up for you.
I'm glad you had improvement of the symptoms you described, including frequent heavy night-time urination. But did you know that frequent heavy night-time urination is also a very common symptom of the serious disease diabetes?
Untreated diabetes can cause major problems, including organ failure, if left untreated over a period of years. Diagnosis is simple, you just tell your doctor about your symptoms and say you'd like to be checked for diabetes. You will receive a referral for a urine and blood test.
Whether or not the preservative TBHQ was in fact a contributor to your problems, we don't know. Single subject 'experiments' like yours do nothing to eliminate the placebo effect, and merely skipping your high non-complex-carbohydrate snack before bed may have alone helped lower your blood sugar levels (cf diabetes again!), thereby increasing your chance of better sleep, irrelevant of TBHQ content.
And even should TBHQ be a (resolved) issue, it doesn't mean you don't have diabetes as well.
I looked at the so called "factsheet" about sleep disturbance & insomnia webpage you linked, and see that it's scientific basic is very, very dubious. It quotes apparently reputable sources, but only a handful of them, and only few pages of each at most, certainly not enough to prove that most of the voluminous list of food additives listed on the webpage affect sleep in any way. The anecdotal evidence listed (none of that is even for TBHQ) is not scientific and proves nothing. The word 'fed' in the website address gives the misleading impression that it's some sort of government website. It isn't.
So please get a medical check-up promptly, if you haven't already (from a GP, since they are all trained in scientific medicine, not some self-appointed New Age 'expert). Be sure to tell the doctor about the frequent heavy night-time urination, whether or not it still occurs.
