Turn Flux on during the day



  • Hi, Is there a way to turn on the night time setting during the day? I work until 4am some nights and am up till 7am and by that time it's shifting back to daytime light and then it's harder for me to sleep. Sometime I want to watch a movie and nap during the day. Please let me know if there is a way to do this?
    Thanks
    Carrie



  • I'd love to have that option too.

    F.lux only covers a very specific case of sleeping 8 hours per day. Unfortunately it seems to enforce that rhythm on everyone.
    It is not ready to cope with people who do segmented sleep. I am practising Biphasic sleep for a start and I will probably extend that. It is working for me.
    Many of the great scientists/influencers had a polyphasic sleep, including Nikola Tesla, Thomas Edison, Leonardo Da Vinci, Winston Churchill, etc.
    http://www.sciencealert.com/these-are-the-sleeping-habits-of-the-rich-the-powerful-and-the-genius

    In addition people who work late shifts don't take the benefits from f.lux.

    PS: I am a donator of this software as I believe it helps many people at the physiological level, so I hope it grows to support other use cases.



  • I'd also like to see this feature implemented. When working unusual hours, the default behavior of f.lux actually makes it harder for me to fall asleep. I have to manually switch time zones in order to get it to behave the way I would like. Opening up the full range of flux for daytime use would solve this problem. It's also worth mentioning that all of the other flux users I know have wanted something like this.



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  • f.lux team

    Posts deleted - please use your good manners gents and ladies


  • f.lux team

    @Rayden I don't know of anyone that has managed to bifurcate human melatonin rhythm - until that is done, anything that also splits light exposure is going to be contributing to reducing melatonin rhythms. We appreciate the feature requests, and especially hearing more about how different people want to use the software.



  • I don't understand. Just adjust it during the day. Does it really need to be fully automatic? It takes like what, 5 seconds to use your mouse to adjust the color temperature. Am I missing something?

    The current Beta version that's available now for Windows has given me the ability to even have 800K during the day if I want and it's supposed to be the same as the Mac version more or less. So, am I missing something?


  • f.lux team

    @TwoCables Yes the changeable wake time should help many of these cases, good thinking.



  • @lorna said in Turn Flux on during the day:

    @TwoCables Yes the changeable wake time should help many of these cases, good thinking.

    Thank you.

    After playing with the Windows Beta for a while (which again, I believe is pretty much the same as the current Mac version), I no longer see any room for complaining that we can't have any color temperature we want at any time we want. At least with the Windows Beta, it seems we can do pretty much anything now and it sticks.

    I don't know how similar version 4.15 for Windows is to the current Mac version, but if it's identical, then I really don't get it. This version provides everything anyone could ever ask for and more. Now it's just a matter of just going into the program and getting what you want by making the adjustments. I mean, good lord, you can fake your location, fake your wake-up time, change your computer's time (if that floats your boat), you can choose any color temperature for any mode... what more could anyone ask for? Put f.lux in the mode you want to change the color temperature for and change it and then do that for the other 2 modes. It's very easy.

    Then, when you're done, you go back to normal with your real location and your real wake-up time and everything else and ta-da: it's exactly how you wanted it.

    Of course, I know exactly what some people will say: "We shouldn't have to do that!" My argument is, it's very easy to do all that! If you have enough time to post on this forum, then you have more than enough time to do all of this in f.lux.



  • "anything anyone could ever ask for and more"

    No it doesn't, because I'm an anyone and I'm asking for manual control to change the color whenever I want to. Not to screw around with making changes to the sleep timer. Not everyone sleeps at the same exact times every day.



  • @asn79 said in Turn Flux on during the day:

    "anything anyone could ever ask for and more"

    No it doesn't, because I'm an anyone and I'm asking for manual control to change the color whenever I want to. Not to screw around with making changes to the sleep timer. Not everyone sleeps at the same exact times every day.

    I can help you with that. Tell me everything you want in detail. I am having no problem getting any color temperature I want in any of the 3 modes that this version of f.lux has.



  • I think that @TwoCables and the flux team are missing the point here.

    There are use cases, such as shift work or irregular sleep cycles, for which the current functionality makes it more difficult to fall asleep. For those cases we must resort to hacks, like constantly changing time zones and wake times, in order to get the deep candlelight 1200k nighttime color mode to work. This is because during the day, the deepest we can go is 1900k.


  • f.lux team

    @Charles-XII (there are options for this)



  • I'm not missing the point. I have been playing with this new Beta for several hours and I can tell you right now that I can get any color temperature I want at any time I want regardless of the mode that f.lux is in. All you have to do is set it up the way you want, and then it works for you without you having to do anything else ever again - until you want it to be different. It's extremely easy. I can detail it if you want, but I figured it out on my own so I don't see why you guys can't figure it out on your own. It's much easier to do this than you think.

    So, please, quit sniping and just check it out.



  • Yeah, you're missing the point. I don't sleep at the same times every day, and I don't even always sleep once per day. So I have to "set it up" each time I use it. Pretty annoying.



  • Here's how to get any color temperature you want at any time of the day:

    For Daytime Mode (it will say "The sun is up")

    1. Move the main slider to the left. If 1900K isn't warm enough, then choose the wider slider range from the menu option called "Options (and Smart Lighting)...". The setting in there for a wider slider range is called "Use wider slider ranges (1200K - 9300K)".
    2. When you adjust this main slider in Daytime Mode, it adjusts Sunset and Bedti

    @asn79 said in Turn Flux on during the day:

    Yeah, you're missing the point. I don't sleep at the same times every day, and I don't even always sleep once per day. So I have to "set it up" each time I use it. Pretty annoying.

    You think so? I don't have a schedule at all. I never go to sleep or wake up at the same time every day (it is absolutely unpredictable). I just go to sleep when I need to sleep and I wake up when I need to wake up. So, I use f.lux "as-needed" every single time I wish to use it. I never let it do anything automatically for me, yet I'm not having any problem with it thanks to the new Beta version for Windows. If you don't want to use the new Beta, then you can make changes to the Windows Registry to get the same results. That's what I did and it was very easy.

    With the new Beta for Windows, you can get any color temperature you want at any time of the day you want, WHENEVER YOU WANT. It's super easy now. You no longer have to screw with the Registry to get this. I am currently writing up a post that shows you how to use the new Beta f.lux for Windows to get whatever color temperature you want whenever you want regardless of what time of day it is and regardless of whether f.lux thinks you're trying to be sleepy for bedtime. It doesn't matter. The new Beta f.lux for Windows gives you completely full control.

    So yes, I fully understand. I'm not missing the point. I fully get it. I know that this is a "one size DOESN'T fit all" deal. I get that. I am telling you that the new Beta f.lux for Windows makes it extremely easy and simple to get whatever you wish out of it at any time and I am currently trying to type up instructions for this even though they really aren't needed.

    If you guys keep sniping though, then you'll be on your own. I will cancel my plans to post those instructions. Or if I post them and you keep sniping, then I'll just delete it and you can figure it out on your own just like I did. I'm not going to put up with it. So, if you want to see these instructions, then stand down! I am writing these instructions as a favor to you guys. Ok? I'm taking time out of my personal life when I have better things to do so that you can enjoy the new Beta f.lux for Windows just as much as I am. In the meantime, see if you can figure this out for yourself like I did. You will haven plenty of time because it might take me 2-3 hours to complete my instructions to my satisfaction. If you don't appreciate that, then that's fine because I really do have other things I'd rather be doing.



  • Actually, I don't really think I need to take much time to write instructions. All you really have to do in the new Beta f.lux for Windows is, go into the f.lux menu (it's the button that's just 3 horizontal lines) and choose "Adjust all colors at once". In there, you can adjust them however you want. If you hold down your CTRL key while moving any slider, then you get to move that slider completely independently from the other 2 which makes customizing f.lux even easier. This is similar to how using CTRL works in the current f.lux for Windows, version 3 (3.12 or whatever it is now).

    If the range of 1900K - 6500K is too narrow, then go back into the menu and choose "Options (and Smart Lighting)...". On the box of options that comes up, choose "Use wider slider ranges (1200K - 9300K)". Or, go into the menu called "Change color to..." In the "Change color to..." menu, you will see the old "Lighting at night" menu options, but guess what: these colors now apply regardless of the mode that f.lux is in.

    Now, take notice of what f.lux says next to its menu. If it says "The sun is up", then it's in Daytime Mode. If it says "The sun has set", then it's in Sunset Mode. If it says "You're getting sleepy", then it's in Bedtime Mode. This corresponds to the 3 sliders that you saw in this exact same order from to bottom.

    If you wish to use something even warmer than 1200K (like me, I prefer 800K), then just use Alt+Shift+Page Down. If you hold down the Page Down key while you are pressing Alt+Shift, then it changes very quickly. However, when you do this, it will only apply to the current mode, whether it's Daytime, Sunset or Bedtime. So, this is when you would have to TEMPORARILY fake your location or your wake-up time in order to manually change the mode. With this trick, I have all 3 modes set to 800K. It was super easy to do. Here's how I did it:

    1. At the time I performed this trick where I live, the sun had already gone down. So, I started with Sunset mode by just leaving f.lux alone and I pressed Alt+Shift+Page Down until it was at 800K.
    2. Then, I put f.lux in Daytime Mode by faking my location and I pressed Alt+Shift+Page Down until it was at 800K. Then I set my location back to my real location.
    3. After that, I finished by faking my wake-up time so that f.lux said "You're getting sleepy". This is Bedtime Mode. Again, I pressed Alt+Shift+Page Down until I got 800K

    To be honest, I don't need these modes, and that's why I did that. I deleted the Registry key that makes f.lux start with Windows. Instead, I launch f.lux when I want to use it. Due to my settings here, I get 800K anytime I want just by launching f.lux. I have f.lux pinned to my Taskbar too, so it couldn't possibly be easier! Regardless of what mode f.lux is in, I get 800K, or whatever color temperature I want. It doesn't matter.

    Using this trick, I could set f.lux up to work perfectly for always sleeping during the day and being awake at night. You can even get any color temperature you want in f.lux version 3, but you have a little less control. However, it's the same process of just holding down the Ctrl key while you move the Daytime slider to be warmer than the 'At Night' slider.

    So, it doesn't matter what your schedule is (or if you're like me and you don't even have a schedule), f.lux is very easy to set up to work perfectly for you and for you alone.

    I haven't even begun to scratch the surface of what the new Beta f.lux for Windows can do. For example, check out the options in the drop-down menu. They are as follows:

    • Recommended Colors
    • Working Late
    • Far from the Equator
    • Classic f.lux
    • Daytime Eyestrain
    • Cave Painting
    • Color Fidelity

    This isn't even the end of it. This new Beta f.lux absolutely destroys the old version.

    Do you think I'm still missing the point? I'd appreciate it if you guys could be a little nicer and quit with this sniping and other crap like that. I'm volunteering my time to help other f.lux users out. I don't really have to be here. Keep it up, and you can just sit and wait for whenever Michael and Lorna have time to reply. They have extremely busy lives whereas I don't. I enjoy being here and helping you all, but a person can only take so much crap. So, be a little nicer. If you can't, then just don't post. You can't expect to get what you want if you're going to treat others like they are your worthless slaves!



  • @TwoCables You're posting this in the OS X forum. We don't have access to the windows beta. I'm glad to hear that it seems like this is something that will someday land in the mac release, but for you to say the feature has landed already and that we are wrong for requesting the feature--well, it is premature.



  • The new Windows Beta is supposed to be pretty much the same as the current Mac version. From what I have seen so far, I have absolutely no trouble getting whatever color temperature I want at whatever time I want, regardless of what mode f.lux is in. It's super easy and I figured it out all on my own.

    And yes, I have been involving myself in one too many threads and now I'm forgetting which one is in which forum because I'm focusing too much on trying to get my reply out quickly because some people are being rather demanding (and rudely so).



  • So, I apologize that I forgot that this is all in the Mac forum. However, with how similar these versions of f.lux are now, I don't really think it matters as much as it used to.



  • @TwoCables @lorna From my mac at this moment, having just downloaded the latest beta (Version 39.94), I am not seeing any way to change daytime color temperature to anything below 1900K. Is there a newer version I should be aware of, or am I missing something?



  • @Charles-XII said in Turn Flux on during the day:

    @TwoCables @lorna From my mac at this moment, having just downloaded the latest beta (Version 39.94), I am not seeing any way to change daytime color temperature to anything below 1900K. Is there a newer version I should be aware of, or am I missing something?

    Hmm. Maybe, or maybe not. Michael may have made some small changes for the Windows Beta which might come to the Mac version when he finishes the Windows version. I don't know. From what I know though, it's supposed to be pretty much the same as the Mac version, except that it works for Windows now too.

    What do you see when you open the f.lux menu? Do you see any options anywhere that allow you to go warmer than 1900K? For example, the Windows Beta has a "Change color to..." menu. There's another menu option for "Options (and Smart Lighting...)". In that window of options, I see "Use wider slider ranges (1200K - 9300K)".

    Did they include any kind of keyboard shortcut to adjust the color temperature? The Windows Beta has one and I can go all the way down to 800K with that keyboard shortcut, and all the way up to 100,000K too.

    Do you have more than one slider to adjust as well? I have one for each mode: Daytime, Sunset and Bedtime.

    I can adjust my wake-up time too.



  • @TwoCables Looking at the release notes for the Mac beta, it doesn't look like the majority of those new features are available yet. The interface doesn't show any of the options you've mentioned either. 800K would be a dream though.



  • @Charles-XII said in Turn Flux on during the day:

    @TwoCables Looking at the release notes for the Mac beta, it doesn't look like the majority of those new features are available yet. The interface doesn't show any of the options you've mentioned either. 800K would be a dream though.

    What's in the "Options" menu? Is it just "Expanded Daytime Settings"?


  • f.lux team

    @asn79 Tell us about your schedule? Do you track your sleep?

    Also it's important to say: even if your schedule is variable day to day, your body is still trying to maintain one circadian rhythm - it doesn't move around that fast. And a lot of variable schedules (like shift work) result in poor circadian alignment, so you are working exactly when your body wants to be sleeping. We hope that we can address these needs better than we do in the future - it's a major focus for us right now.


  • f.lux team

    Do you all have displays that dim well? Our measurements say that a Mac dimmed at 1900K is way way below threshold for most non-visual effects of light.

    Someone post a schedule so we can talk details, like "I go to bed at 3AM some days and 7AM on other days, and at 6AM this thing doesn't work...."



  • @herf said in Turn Flux on during the day:

    Do you all have displays that dim well? Our measurements say that a Mac dimmed at 1900K is way way below threshold for most non-visual effects of light.

    Someone post a schedule so we can talk details, like "I go to bed at 3AM some days and 7AM on other days, and at 6AM this thing doesn't work...."

    When you say "dimmed at 1900K", do you mean manually dimming the monitor in addition to changing the color temperature?


  • f.lux team

    @TwoCables Yes or using good automatic brightness (which Apple is doing well).


  • f.lux team

    With my science hat on, one thing I'm trying to uncover if we're talking about "dark adaptation" or "using computers in dark rooms late at night" and not "alerting/circadian effects of light".

    There are almost certainly circadian rhythms in the retina that may be driving these things, and very late at night, we may be talking about a different system entirely. But these rhythms also entrain, so there should be consistent times day to day when you're sensitive to light, and times when you're not.



  • @herf said in Turn Flux on during the day:

    @TwoCables Yes or using good automatic brightness (which Apple is doing well).

    See, I worry that most people just leave their monitor's brightness up way too high, or even up all the way. I also worry that people treat f.lix as a magic bullet and don't consider other things like their indoor lighting, or their TV, etc.


  • f.lux team

    @TwoCables Yes, and also dimming the lights in the room (while not turning them off). There's a point where you get diminishing returns with reducing color temperature - it's extremely easy at these settings to have more light coming from your regular lighting.



  • @herf said in Turn Flux on during the day:

    @TwoCables Yes, and also dimming the lights in the room (while not turning them off). There's a point where you get diminishing returns with reducing color temperature - it's extremely easy at these settings to have more light coming from your regular lighting.

    Yeah, I have seen a few too many posts on this entire forum that clearly indicate that the user is just expecting f.lux to work like a magic bullet. They don't consider their monitor's brightness, they don't consider the lighting in their room, they don't consider the lighting in the rest of the house, they don't consider the TV or any other devices that aren't compatible with f.lux, and they also don't consider other alerting/stimulating things that have nothing to do with light such as sound or physical activities. It's like, "Oh, as long as I use f.lux, I'm ok."


  • f.lux team

    On most Macs, you should be dimming beyond halfway at night, and hopefully a lot more.



  • @herf I have a concrete example.

    • Working late with a nap in the afternoon. I would have a bedtime of 4am and a wake up time of, say, 10am, which I can make work with the current flux configuration by adjusting wake up time settings. Then at 2pm I might choose to take a nap. It's at that point that I would want to go down to 1200k, rather than be stuck at 1900k. What I end up doing for that case now is changing my time zone (but I could probably also achieve the same result by changing my wake up time again). Of course, the work schedule is not great for circadian rhythms, but it would be nice for flux to be flexible enough to accommodate it.

    It is possible to work around the constraints of the current version of flux with wake up time and timezone offsets, but a much simpler workflow (which would allow me to keep the other settings consistent) would be to just move the daytime slider down to 1200 for those odd cases.

    @TwoCables At night, my monitor is dimmed to the lowest possible setting and there is no other light in the room.



  • I think Michael and Lorna might say the same thing here, so I'll just say it now instead.

    F.lux isn't needed for afternoon naps. The whole point of avoiding alerting light is so you don't suppress (prevent), delay, or interrupt melatonin production. I think it can take 2-3 hours before the body is in full production of melatonin. If you don't interrupt it once it starts, then it can last long enough for a full good night's sleep. For a nap though, well, you're just napping. At the absolute most, a nap should never be any longer than about 20 minutes. If you sleep any longer than that, then you will wake up feeling worse, and you will also hurt your sleep at night in various ways.

    So, it is actually not beneficial to avoid blue light for a nap. Nothing is gained by doing so. If anything, you might be confusing your body's circadian timing system by making it think it's nighttime even though it's not.



  • @TwoCables Take a more extreme variation of a nap, then, as the example: biphasic sleep cycles.



  • @Charles-XII said in Turn Flux on during the day:

    @TwoCables Take a more extreme variation of a nap, then, as the example: biphasic sleep cycles.

    I'd better let Michael or Lorna answer that then. Even so, with how long it takes to begin producing melatonin, you may as well just black out your windows, turn the lights off and go to sleep unless you want to spend a couple of hours making your body produce melatonin so that you can get some good quality sleep. It doesn't happen immediately, especially if it's only 4 hours after you wake up.

    I think Michael and Lorna can really answer this very well though because they've done the research.


  • f.lux team

    @Charles-XII

    We are really interested in the different ways that people sleep, and we are very aware that everyone is different. f.lux doesn't tell people when to go to bed, only when to begin dimming the lights.

    Based on the literature, even biphasic sleepers are likely to need a strong light dark rhythm, because melatonin release and uptake happens over a ~24 hour rhythm, regardless of how many hours you sleep or when you nap. So splitting the light exposure into segments means potentially reducing melatonin by a lot. So far, no one has bifurcated the melatonin rhythm in human beings (despite a lot of really smart people trying).

    Most of the great thinkers referenced in an earlier post would not have had access to electric light and LED backlit screens, they were awake at night but they were still living under a solar rhythm, doing their work late at night in circadian darkness.

    The idea behind f.lux is to provide healthy darkness at night even when exposed to artificial light and that happens on a ~24 hour schedule. f.lux is designed to meet different needs and schedules, and as the science becomes more clear, f.lux will be updated accordingly. Even if what you are looking for is different from the way the f.lux software is designed to function, we still appreciate hearing about your needs and thoughts.


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