Light Pollution.



  • When I feel like typing up a huge post about the effects of light pollution from sea turtles to air pollution, I will, but I don't feel like it right now as it takes a while. (I could copy and past a post I made on another website, but I don't think that would be nice).

    Anyway, nobody cares about the stars--because they can't see any of them. So how are you supposed to care about something if you don't know what it is? Really.

    Light pollution from street lights is very common, and probably everyone who has visited this website has had to put blinds or curtains up to block out the light tresspass (illegal in five states so far) from the street lights, or may even a neighbor as well. Yes it's irritating, and now you don't get the chance to have bright light waking you up in the morning.

    I see on fluxometer there is both HPS and LED street lights, so at maybe 50 feet away, how much of an effect on sleep can this have, if I were to just have no blinds or curtains to block the light? I hope this gets studied more since IDA is surely working on it now too.


  • f.lux team

    Yeah, IDA is definitely working hard on this. You're right that there's a whole lot to be said about it.

    We've got a few more lights to measure, different sizes of LEDs and LPS (Mike's car makes a pretty great Spectromobile, he can just roll up under a light and point the spectroradiometer out the moonroof to get a reading).

    I am the most concerned for kids with an LED street light pointing in their window at night - true light blocking curtains are either extortionately expensive or a marketing fiction. But the effects on wildlife are not good either, and unfortunately there is often a significant amount of confusion on the part of people making purchasing decisions for municipalities. Hopefully f.luxometer will help make the research more accessible.

    Here's more on how the moon can impact sleep: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/it-must-be-the-moon-tired/



  • Wow thanks for the link, since I've seen the moon (it was most likely full moon, and around that area) for a few nights, and recently haven't sleep as well, so maybe it will get better tonight!

    I'm surprised that the researchers saw sleep pattern changes even with no windows to see the moon, now that's just really interesting!

    Also, you know you're a light geek when you have a spectrometer of some sorts in your car! I look forward to seeing a few more light sources like LPS for sure!



  • This makes perfect sense to me. I mean, the moon is reflecting a portion of the sun's light AND ENERGY to the sunless parts of the planet. Think about that for a few minutes. No, I mean seriously think about that for a moment before continuing on to the next paragraph. I'll wait.

    ....

    Ok, so, when we have a full moon, we have a portion of the sun in the night sky. Granted, it's not absolutely 100% of that small portion due to the moon absorbing some of the sun's light and energy and also due to a large portion of the sun's light and energy not even hitting the moon and just getting lost in space.

    I will focus on the energy that is being reflected toward the sunless part of our planet because we're talking about being affected even when we're in a room that doesn't have any windows whatsoever (where you couldn't tell if it's day or night no matter what unless you had a clock). I'm assuming here that this energy can penetrate just about anything, including the walls and roof of your house or apartment (x-rays and whatnot? I have no idea, I'm not an expert). Thus, we humans are affected just the same as if we were outside at night, "unprotected". I'm also assuming that this energy is biologically energizing, thus making it slightly more difficult to sleep - and perhaps making all-nighters a bit easier to accomplish. For those people who seem to be affected the most, we sometimes call them "lunatics". Notice the root word "luna".

    Now, I am VERY much acquainted with the difference between sleeping at night vs. sleeping during the day. I can feel a difference very easily; I sleep MUCH better between sunset and sunrise, especially if I fall asleep just after sunset. The closer and closer it is to sunrise, the more and more I can feel the sun's energy, and the more awake and alert I tend to feel - even if I have no clue of what time it is or how much light there is or isn't outside. So, I have noticed that I can actually feel the sun's energy or lack thereof, and so it makes perfect sense to me that when the entire moon is reflecting the sun's light and energy toward the sunless parts of our planet, those people in those locations will be slightly energized just as if we took a tiny slice off the sun and put it next to the moon.

    So, I kinda don't understand how these so-called experts can have no idea why full moons are having this effect on us. I mean, I think it's extremely obvious! It's reflecting the sun's light and energy at us, and so that's all the answer any expert should need. I mean, a full moon is like having a small portion of the sun in the sky at night. So, there you go. Again, I'm talking about the energy that's being reflected at us, not just the sun's light due to the fact that this can affect people even if they are in a completely walled-in area with no windows or any indication of the time of day.



  • Well that's certainly a plausible explanation!

    Here are some long exposure shots of light pollution:
    so much wasted energy

    street lights pointing to the sky

    Now if we did not have all those lights shining UP we could see things like

    a beautiful night sky in South Carolina or how about the milky way right outside L.A.! Imagine seeing that standing in the middle of Los Angeles! It can happen and I hope it does soon.



  • @timpster said:

    Well that's certainly a plausible explanation!

    Here are some long exposure shots of light pollution:
    so much wasted energy

    street lights pointing to the sky

    Now if we did not have all those lights shining UP we could see things like

    a beautiful night sky in South Carolina or how about the milky way right outside L.A.! Imagine seeing that standing in the middle of Los Angeles! It can happen and I hope it does soon.

    I have never seen street lights that point up. I would bet that it's just a bit of an illusion from that photo.



  • LOL......... no. I'll take it you've not been on a plane at nigh (neither have I), but yeah, as stupid as it seems, this is NOT an optical illusion. Look up sky glow, how do you think that's possible?

    Yes, it's crazy, but some of the light goes up -- it literally goes in ALL directions, (not JUST up if that's what your implying).



  • @timpster said:

    LOL......... no. I'll take it you've not been on a plane at nigh (neither have I), but yeah, as stupid as it seems, this is NOT an optical illusion. Look up sky glow, how do you think that's possible?

    Yes, it's crazy, but some of the light goes up -- it literally goes in ALL directions, (not JUST up if that's what your implying).

    Sky glow? I would explain that from just the general light pollution from all the lights from things like bright signs, city lights, malls, 24/7 stores, etc. etc. etc. The street lights we have here don't put light upward. The top of the light is solid because the interior is a reflective dome in order to concentrate the light down at the street and sidewalk.



  • @TwoCables said:

    @timpster said:

    LOL......... no. I'll take it you've not been on a plane at nigh (neither have I), but yeah, as stupid as it seems, this is NOT an optical illusion. Look up sky glow, how do you think that's possible?

    Yes, it's crazy, but some of the light goes up -- it literally goes in ALL directions, (not JUST up if that's what your implying).

    Sky glow? I would explain that from just the general light pollution from all the lights from things like bright signs, city lights, malls, 24/7 stores, etc. etc. etc. The street lights we have here don't put light upward. The top of the light is solid because the interior is a reflective dome in order to concentrate the light down at the street and sidewalk.

    Anyway, just for the record, yeah light pollution is depressing in my opinion. It's no wonder most people think that we're alone in this universe, that we are the only sentient beings that exist, that there's no other life anywhere else, etc.



  • Well, the light may not look like it's going up, but it goes slightly upward with an angle -- if you're in a city at night, and you can get on a higher road above street lights, you'll see the light go upward at an angle, maybe not straight up, but that's where it's headed.



  • @timpster said:

    Well, the light may not look like it's going up, but it goes slightly upward with an angle -- if you're in a city at night, and you can get on a higher road above street lights, you'll see the light go upward at an angle, maybe not straight up, but that's where it's headed.

    Oh, that's what you mean. I had a feeling I was misunderstanding.



  • That's O.K., but yeah, they need much more of a shield, and the Internation Dark Sky Association has approved certain fixtures that don't have the problem, so if you are even to the side of the light, you still won't see it.

    You can even find them on Amazon!!



  • @timpster said:

    That's O.K., but yeah, they need much more of a shield, and the Internation Dark Sky Association has approved certain fixtures that don't have the problem, so if you are even to the side of the light, you still won't see it.

    You can even find them on Amazon!!

    lol I should tell my city to go shopping for new lights on Amazon.com. hahaha

    All kidding aside though, yeah.. when I learned about light pollution a year or two ago, I became a little bit angry at this world because damn... we are being seriously deprived of one hell of a beautiful sky that I've never seen in person. There's one tiny little area here in Minnesota way up north that's VERY deep inside of a forest (very hard to get to) where there's absolutely no light pollution, according to a light pollution map. It's a tiny black spot, just like the desert way out west.



  • I was gonna ask if you'd ever seen it, so thanks for answering that. There was an earth quake in 1994 and it took out ALL power in an L.A. area, and people called in asking if the strange silver thing in the sky was the cause of it. You can guess what that was -- they'd never seen it before (those lucky people) and I still haven't seen it in person.

    The following wonderful webpage has more info (it also has a "hidden" picture, be sure to take a good look at it before the mouse gets too close!) http://physics.fau.edu/observatory/lightpol-astro.html

    Also, please try Firefox's new "reader" function, near the refresh page while reading the link, also you will have to increase text size, use the Aa button, and crank it up until the the section that's very narrow gets wider. It will make that section much easier to read, then you can put it back down.



  • @timpster said:

    I was gonna ask if you'd ever seen it, so thanks for answering that. There was an earth quake in 1994 and it took out ALL power in an L.A. area, and people called in asking if the strange silver thing in the sky was the cause of it. You can guess what that was -- they'd never seen it before (those lucky people) and I still haven't seen it in person.

    The following wonderful webpage has more info (it also has a "hidden" picture, be sure to take a good look at it before the mouse gets too close!) http://physics.fau.edu/observatory/lightpol-astro.html

    Whoa that's a long page. I"m a little tired at the moment, so maybe after I get some good sleep. :)

    Anyway, the fact that they had to ask what that strange silver thing in the sky is just breaks my heart. Big time.

    I tried Firefox 39 today (I use and prefer 31.7.0 because I dislike all newer versions), and I tried the new reader feature, but I didn't like it. I don't like switching back and forth just so I can go from a page that has both the text and the buttons (like Reply and Quote and whatnot) to a text-only page. It seems unnecessary for my style and more time-consuming than just sitting here and reading. I really didn't care for it at all.

    Usually, if I try a new feature of some software and it's something that I will be unable to live without so to speak, I know it right away. This Reader feature struck me as a silly unnecessary gimmick, at least for me.



  • .... Did you try on the forum? Why the hell would you do that?!

    I'm sure you also did the following though, try it on the link I gave you, but anyway, as you said you don't really need it, but what I like it for is getting rid of all the other links etc on a webpage, and just having the text.

    Readability does a better job but since it's default that makes it very easy to use on a machine with Firefox.



  • @timpster said:

    .... Did you try on the forum? Why the hell would you do that?!

    I'm sure you also did the following though, try it on the link I gave you, but anyway, as you said you don't really need it, but what I like it for is getting rid of all the other links etc on a webpage, and just having the text.

    Readability does a better job but since it's default that makes it very easy to use on a machine with Firefox.

    Because that's the first thing I saw when I opened up Firefox 39?

    Anyway, I don't want to look at a web page like that if it's just text. I want to see it as the creator/author intended it to be seen.I want to experience it in the way that they intended it to be experienced. Besides, I hate all versions newer than 31.7.0., including 39. So, it doesn't matter anyway. The reason why requires a very long explanation.



  • This post is deleted!


  • How did you try the reader function on the forum -- I don't have the button available -- and there is this "deleted post" the forum refreshed just in time for me to miss it.



  • @timpster said:

    How did you try the reader function on the forum -- I don't have the button available -- and there is this "deleted post" the forum refreshed just in time for me to miss it.

    To be honest, this is a waste of our time because I don't want Firefox 39 because they haven't fixed what I hate about all versions past 31.7.0.



  • Might you like Pale Moon

    I couldn't get firefox to display FULL BLACK in youtube -- 16-235 I guess, maybe much brighter. Anyway, I didn't like the interface much either, and Palemoon looks great!

    Give it a go!



  • @timpster said:

    Might you like Pale Moon

    I couldn't get firefox to display FULL BLACK in youtube -- 16-235 I guess, maybe much brighter. Anyway, I didn't like the interface much either, and Palemoon looks great!

    Give it a go!

    I tried Pale Moon recently, but I had rendering problems on pages that I need to look at every day. I've tried them all. I used to prefer Pale Moon, but I faded away from it for some reason and today I'm glad that happened because I would have gone back to Firefox out of frustration anyway due to these rendering issues.

    So, thank you, but I'm all set.


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