Custom sunset/sunruse schedule - default is not OK for me.



  • @willy said:

    I need something like this too, just an automatic, as-needed screen dimmer/blue light remover. I don't sleep on a 24 hour cycle so sometimes I am going to bed at 2am, sometimes at 2pm and anytime in between so just having the screen follow a 'normal' 24-hour clock is worthless to me. On the twilight app on my Android tablet I just switch between 'custom' and 'always' and can turn it on and off as needed. Is there another program that can do this for Windows if f.lux can't? Thanks a bunch for any help.

    Why not just do what I'm doing? Read my post above to learn more about it. My way is surprisingly extremely easy and enjoyable. With my method, you're in the driver's seat at all times.



  • @lorna thanks for listening. I am not using it on the phone. I am not needing it there. I need it for a desktop/work machine. Sometimes I am working, sometimes I am relaxing. But I want to set it when to go dim and when not.
    This is the only possible way I can use it (if you disregard nagging and disabling).

    There is a suggestion, however (since I am developer). If it is too costly to implement scheduling properly, you can make it run with parameters from a command line.
    eg.: flux -dim 3000K (or similar,, but you get the point)



  • This REALLY needs attention. I know 4 months is not long in developer time but it seems like this wouldn't be a major fix unless you're operating on spaghetti code. You just need a method to override the the scheduling and a little addition to the interface...

    My situation is that in the winter, we get down to an 8-hour day and 16 hour night. It's neat that f.lux knows when the sun goes down, but when it goes down at 4:30pm I REALLY don't want my screen to dim. In fact, I'd prefer it to dim at about 9 or 10 pm year around. I just don't understand why there's not a custom timer setting. Even my phone app has it. What gives? Do I need to find a different app? Do you guys need a developer?


  • f.lux team

    @Jacob-Johnston, I feel like you could choose to say this in a nicer way.

    I certainly understand your frustrations, and I hope you'll like what's coming up next. But the tone of your comment makes me want to go do stuff other than hanging out on this forum answering questions right now.



  • @Jacob-Johnston said:

    This REALLY needs attention. I know 4 months is not long in developer time but it seems like this wouldn't be a major fix unless you're operating on spaghetti code. You just need a method to override the the scheduling and a little addition to the interface...

    My situation is that in the winter, we get down to an 8-hour day and 16 hour night. It's neat that f.lux knows when the sun goes down, but when it goes down at 4:30pm I REALLY don't want my screen to dim. In fact, I'd prefer it to dim at about 9 or 10 pm year around. I just don't understand why there's not a custom timer setting. Even my phone app has it. What gives? Do I need to find a different app? Do you guys need a developer?

    You need to know that f.lux is owned and operated by just two people: a husband and wife team. They don't have anyone else involved. So, please try to be patient.


  • f.lux team

    @TwoCables That's completely irrelevant, and when you see how much is about to come out, you will understand what I mean. My point stands - if we were a thousand person team, someone who cares about the product would still have to go through the forums and read his note. There are positive ways to ask for things that get you what you want and then there's, well, this.



  • My problem is, people treat you like you have a big team or something. They expect faster responses, they expect faster implementation of new ideas, faster deployment of new versions, etc. They treat you like you're a big company. Some even treat you poorly until they find out that it's just you and MIchael. I guess I'm tired of seeing you put up with it because I can clearly see how it upsets you.


  • f.lux team

    It's just fine if we look like a big company. (But talking to a big company that way won't get you what you want either.) I'm pretty excited about what's coming up though. We could keep 10 people very busy but it's pretty fun to still be small. Clearly it doesn't seem to some people like we're moving fast. I get the frustration. The new stuff is fantastic. I'd be mad too if I weren't already using it ;)



  • Yeah, you guys are doing an amazingly good job that honestly leaves me speechless. Here you are just you and Michael and yet it really does feel like you're a well-established small business with a good-sized team of dedicated and caring individuals. I just love you both! There, I said it. :)

    I'm really looking forward to the new version. I know without even looking at it that it's going to be absolutely fantastic!



  • Here's another user that lives in area where sunset happens really early. The program itself works fantastic and it's a major innovation (and probably lot of work) to include time-zone specific feature!

    All that said, user-specifiable "sunset" time and "sunrise" would mean all the difference in the world for people like me. I usually use my computer quite late, much beyond the real sunset (I would like to start "night" for f.lux about two hours before bedtime). At summer, on the other hand, the problem is the opposite. The only thing I can do, is set the coordinates exactly at the equator, where is 12-hour cycle all year round. But even this does't solve the core problem, as most of us are awake a lot more than 12 hours. (If I place my location to the southern hemisphere, this problem obviously disappears, but requires manual coordinate shifting all the time).

    Several older messages tells about the same issue. I post it once again to stress the severity of this problem. I'm also quite conviced that adding two boxes for "daytime" and "nighttime" is quite easy to implement, given that the coordinate-based system must have been difficult work, and yet it is a success.

    While waiting eagerly the solution, could someone tell about "Windows Task Scheduler"? I know how to schedule a program, but I don't know how to automatically kill it once running.



  • More about Windows Task handler. Windows scheduler's TASKKILL command (flux.exe) or closing flux.exe via Windows Task Manager seems to close the program, but doesn't restore the normal colours.

    My computer has Win7 and AMD display adapter.



  • Why do that when you can just exit f.lux using its Notification Area icon's context menu (right-click the icon)? Or why not just manually switch f.lux to 6500K?



  • @TwoCables They want automation.



  • @timpster said:

    @TwoCables They want automation.

    lol I know that. Come on man, I'm not that dumb. :)


  • f.lux team

    I really hope that you all are beta testers for the new release. I am very excited about it!

    It is difficult to give everyone exactly what they need and still have an interface that's usable for 99% of everyone. But we're going to do our best and we are going to need your help in feedback and testing ^_^



  • Count me in!



  • @lorna

    Great to have a quick response and even greater if you can add the "manual control". Btw, UI looks nice, altough at first I didn't realize, when I was in the "operating mode" and when in the "settings" page (that's my mistake - most programs have so messy settings page that it's impossible not to distnguish the two. Excellent work!). However, finding the same settings in the menu (three stripes on the upper-right corner) and the main/settings interface is not necessary and can even be somewhat confusing.

    This, of coure, is kind of off-topic, but since your concern about making f.lux look "too messy", you could simply drop out some of the double options. Thus, you'll have "room" for adding the new features without the cost of simplicity and usability.

    In the taskbar icon's right-click menu it's probably a good thing to keep the options - as we users are a diverse group and some want to do the same things in a different way.



  • OK, I have a workaround that is far from elegant, but theoretically should work.

    PROBLEM: killing f.lux in any other way than manually right-click leaves the setting as it currently is (dimmed or brightened).

    ASSUMPTION (correct if i'm wrong): using TASKKILL actually does exit f.lux, the colour just left "uncorrected" when program is forced to terminate

    SOLUTION

    1. Set your location to equator (12-hour day all the year) and pick a timezone that suits your needs (for example sunrise 7am, sunset 7pm).
    2. Open Task Scheduler (Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Administrative Tools) and make two schedules:
      a) [install path]\flux.exe
      b) TASKKILL /F /IM flux.exe
    3. Because taskkill doesn't restore colours, it must be executed "after sunrise" when the colour is normal, let's say at 12 noon (any time when your computer is on and the colours are normal, will do). This should be invisible to user, but actually should kill f.lux.
    4. After sunset (7pm in our example) the program is still off and doesn't do anything.
    5. Now, for the second scheduled event, pick a convenient time (for example 11pm). Then f.lux starts and notices that it's night; changing the colour appropriately. This continues until "sunrise" kicks in and brightens the display (example 7am).
    6. The sceduled taskkill terminates program once again at noon until the other schedule starts it up again at 11pm (or whatever you choose).
    7. Because f.lux is killed every day, you shouldn't get a thousand of copies running.

    I made some tests, but until the full cycle has run, I can't be sure if it actually works. My computer is on 24/7, so I didn't think, what happens if you're used to shut down your computer. Hope this helps as many as possible until the new version f.lux is available.

    Happy New Year!



  • I discovered that TASKKILL can actually be used to exit the app the right way (restoring original brightness). Just drop the /F parameter. So "TASKKILL /IM flux.exe" would do the same and makes things a lot easier. Just use Task Scheduler to handle the starting and stopping f.lux (you still need create two tasks: one for the morning and the other for evening). But that way, you don't need to worry about timezones. Just set day and night brightness equal, and Windows Task Scheduler takes care of the rest.


  • f.lux team

    Sorry @Jari-Kolehmainen we'll have a beta for you soon.



  • Hi all, first off thank you very much devs for f.lux. It saved the day previously for me with an excessively bright/blue tablet that made my eyes hurt.

    I don't wish to cause offence as I think f.lux is great, but some of the points made in this thread do resonate for me, and people's requirements differ so greatly that I can't help thinking many users would prefer more control, which would probably be easier to implement. I guess the problem is that sunrise and sunset don't affect our routines - I sit in a fluorescently lit office for another two or three hours after sunset at this time of year, and in the summer when the sun sets late and rises early it's kept out by blackout curtains, so I have control over my lighting conditions and routine and want f.lux to allow me the same!

    Personally I'd be very happy just to be able to create a few "quick modes" (I'd have day, night fluorescent and night dim incandescent) with buttons to quickly switch between them. If I could also set times to change from day to night and back that would be fab. If the night mode was selected based on my location or ambient lighting as well as time that would be amazing.

    Looking forward to new features in the upcoming beta. Is it just a case of keeping an eye on the forum or is there somewhere to sign up for it/notifications? Thanks again for all your work.


  • f.lux team

    @Lisa-Benham absolutely no offense taken. The Windows version has lagged the Mac in the custom settings for a while now and it's going to be fixed soon. One of our goals is to help people understand exactly what the light they see is doing, so that making the right choices for you will be much easier.



  • Hey @lorna I sincerely apologize for my inappropriate tone. I really thought you guys were an established company with developers on hand. Congrats BTW that you manage to give off that impression with a well-polished app, great website and support, etc...

    Regardless, it's no excuse for my behavior. Were I to give an excuse, it'd be that I was up late studying and coding and feeling irritable about more than just my screen dimming every hour, but I still could have come at it differently.

    Incidentally, I love @Lisa-Benham's idea on quick modes. I'd like to be able to set a consistent schedule but even with that I'd probably still use quick modes frequently if they were available.

    Anyway, I'm looking forward to your updates! If you don't despise me for my reprehensible remarks, I'd be interested in participating in the beta. Any special steps to take?



  • @lorna To tag-team on the subject. My wife works until 11pm EST, I'm up at 4am. For this app to work (my kids' kindle Fires have this feature built-in, and I love it!), we need to set the exact times it comes on and off, for us, 11p-4a - I want full-bright at 4a!). Thanks for creating it!


  • f.lux team

    @gvndual Are you sharing a phone or do you each have your own? I am thinking you'd be fine with the newer circadian timing if you each have your own. And please be careful of claims made by any system that your kids are using before bed. Kids hold screens closer, their eyes are much more sensitive to light than adult eyes, with clearer lenses and different biology. All this is an ongoing topic of research and no one has The Answer. Most of the "solutions" I've seen don't even incorporate the most basic science.


  • f.lux team

    @Jacob-Johnston thanks for your nice note. Do you have a rooted phone? We'd love to have your help and I already know you'll give us your honest opinions ;)



  • Hi, I 've been watching this thread for a while and it looks like it's getting close :D I'm an avid f.lux user on both my iPhone and pc, and was wondering if I could help with beta testing? I love the concept, but it's not working that great for me since this season we only have 3 hours of sunlight, and when I disable f.lux, I always forget to re-enable. I have a rooted iPhone 6 and windows 10 pc. I work in IT, so I'm sure I will be able to give relevant and useful feedback.



  • I would like to be a beta tester, too :) (Windows 10 on my dual monitor system & Surface Pro 4)
    By the way: It would be perfect for me, if the color gets less blue on sunset and really orange at a predefined time (e.g. at midnight - an hour before I go to sleep). It's just an idea ;)



  • @gvndual said:

    @lorna To tag-team on the subject. My wife works until 11pm EST, I'm up at 4am. For this app to work (my kids' kindle Fires have this feature built-in, and I love it!), we need to set the exact times it comes on and off, for us, 11p-4a - I want full-bright at 4a!). Thanks for creating it!

    The kindle fire has this built in? WHAT?!



  • The timing thing is built into it.



  • @joankim The iOS version is on hold for a while. I'm not sure how long of a while... F.lux team would like to work with Apple on it.

    I can not say anymore about mobile beta's.



  • @TwoCables WHAT!! Does it change color?



  • I don't know. I'm just telling you what they're saying.



  • @TwoCables Oh, O.K.



  • or at least what I think they're saying. I seriously doubt that f.lux is built into it because a big announcement would have been made about it. I mean, that would be a big deal.



  • @Tungsten_smooth The Kindle Fire has an feature built into it that allows the user to change the display from "Normal" to "Night." I did not mean to imply the f.lux app built in. Sorry for the confusion. I was only saying how much I love the Fire's method of doing this, and as such I was eager for the f.lux to be more flexible so I can use it on my PC.



  • @gvndual What does night mode do? Invert colors?


  • f.lux team

    We haven't measured yet but it looks like they're using an overlay. And the iOS version isn't on hold any more or less than it has been.



  • @lorna Aw! That's just horrible! How difficult is it to change the colors correctly? Shame on you amazon!

    (I'm assuming you saw black change into brown?)


  • f.lux team

    Going just from the screenshots, see the one on this page: http://mbeddedmaximum.com/2015/12/18/the-amazon-fire-tablet-you-get-a-lot-more-than-50-worth/

    I guess people can only copy what they can install. >.<



  • @lorna
    From the site you just linked:

    Looking at Blue Shade is kind of like looking in an old, yellowy-tinted book

    WHAT? There's nothing remotely yellow about it! That's PINK.


  • f.lux team

    Yeah, I don't know what to tell you.



  • @lorna No my phone isn't rooted. To be honest I'm a long-time happy user of Twilight for my Android but if you're making an Android app I'll have to check it out. Is rooting necessary to test? I can just enable app installation from 3rd party sources... Still using f.lux on all my computers though and looking forward to updates / would be happy to beta test.


  • f.lux team

    @Jacob-Johnston For now it is. You can see the difference between Twilight and f.lux here: https://fluxometer.com/rainbow/#!id=Nexus 4 Apps/flux1900-nexus4



  • @lorna

    That's a neat visualization but I'm not sure but I'm not sure what to make of the results or the numbers. It's comparing f.lux1900 to twillight1500 (not sure what this means) and in my experience with twillight on my Galaxy Note4 you can set the color temp and dimming separately, with color temp ranging way further into the reds than I would usually use... I'll think about rooting my phone. I could provide more detailed feedback than I probably should in this forum but at the momet I just have no other good reason to root my phone.



  • @Jacob-Johnston The fluxometer compares the DEFAULT settings in twilight. So when you first install it, it's not doing SHIT to reduce much of the blue or green colors, by just using a red overlay. Yes you can change it around to 2700K but it's fading out the text and it's not as comfortable to read.

    Filters like this are terrible, but that's all that is currently allowed without having root access. I hope color temp changes are allowed as regular users in the future.


  • f.lux team

    @Jacob-Johnston The TL;DR is that dimming your phone and holding it further from your face is the best solution we know of for non-rooted phones right now.



  • I would love to beta flux on my android devices, I have a phone and a tablet running 4.4.x and a tablet running 4.2.x and one other tablet running 5.0.



  • I'm really looking forward to the new PC version!

    * SPOILER ALERT - Long Post *

    I've worked on both small & large teams...

    /Generalization ON
    If properly managed, large(r) teams can iterate versions quickly...until they're too large (or not quite large enough, in the case of rapid growth), and then teams either have to be divided up...or (if management can't get their act together), pray the company gets purchased before the business closes. Furthermore, big team politics can often kill teamwork, and make your job a nice place to get away from as quickly as possible at the end of the day - which can lead to inferior product.

    Small teams are more constrained by hours in the day & quantity of hands to do things. But if dedicated, they make superior product (like L&M's f.lux team!), but unless they have nothing else to do (often also a company killer), things can take a bit longer.
    /Generalization OFF

    f.lux UI, functionality, & your depth of research all deserve high praise!

    Before my father recommended f.lux to me last fall, I've had to resort to many kludgy work-arounds for years to manage lighting so that my challenges with SAD/dysthymia/bipolar don't render me totaly useless. Full sized homemade full spectrum flourescent light boxes get the strangest of looks from people who don't know what's going on!

    They got even more confused when they'd turn my overhead light on towards evening and I'd ask them to turn it off again.

     "You use that light box all day long, 
      and then you turn off the light at night 
      when you need it...I don't get it!"
    

    It's interesting that they really enjoyed hanging out in my space during rainy days when I had the only available "sun" light!

    I have several systems:
       - Win10 Convertible Laptop/Tablet
       - Android Tablet
       - MacBook
       - Vista laptop (soon either Win10 - else Linux)
    . . . Desktop PC's of various vintage lurking in dark storage corners!

    Beta testing is something I'd be interested in - especially for something which assists better health & outlook on life.

    Here's my take on the Quick-Set Buttons discussion . . .


    In SETTINGS screen:

    1. Provide user checkbox to switch from AUTOMATED SCHEDULE to MANUAL input;
    2. In MANUAL settings, provide slider (suggest 1 - 4 only) to select User-desired quantity of settings to be memorized;

    In MANUAL settings:

    1. User selects a numbered radio button to "program";

    Using a choice of:
       - Provided f.lux presets; or,
       - The existing LOCATION; or,
       - Day Time/Night Time colour sliders

    1. User makes desired lighting adjustments;

    2. User presses "MEMORIZE" button in MANUAL settings screen;
      (Behind the scenes, CURRENT SETTINGS are applied to the selected radio button.)
      6) User repeats steps 3 through 5 as required;

    3. Return to regularly scheduled programming;

    4. When desired/needed User selects radio button(s) to manually switch to (now memorized) settings for each radio button;

    5. Manual tweakers are now (maybe) happier. (Are we ever?)

    You could have all settings allocated to either manual or scheduled, with the caveat that any manual selection will override a current schedule. (But this would require more programming than the suggestion above & would likely confuse less technical Users.)

    Perhaps an option to set the number of DESIRED DAYLIGHT HOURS (originally defaulted to LOCATION), after which the automated schedule could proceed as usual? (This would be simplest, but wouldn't provide the level of control for manual tweakers.)

    And of course:

    1. A RESET BUTTON to undo all of the damage wrought by the tweakers!

    Though I LOVE f.lux and would continue to use it in its present condition, I will (almost always) welcome intelligent changes to the interface and options!

    Keep up the good work!



  • It's really embarrassing that the dev talks about an "upcoming version" for 6 months for a feature so simple that can be fixed with the Task Scheduler, PR much? Anyway thanks a bunch to Jari Kolehmainen for the tip on how to properly close the app from the Task Scheduler.


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