[ Resolved ] // Feature request: Adjustment periods



  • Hi. Didn't know where exactly to post this - there isn't a section for feature requests or anything. I assume that's because the developers don't take requests... But I thought I'd post anyway to be sure :)

    First of all, thanks very much for making this program! It has really helped my eyes as I work mostly at night. I would happily pay for this program is there was ever a premium version.

    On to the suggestion... Currently the program detects sun rise and at a certain point it goes from night slowly up to the daytime setting. I think it would be great to have a time period of an hour or two ( maybe adjustable? ) where the color temp will be somewhere in between the night and day values. This would be an adjustment period whilst the sun continues to rise / set into day / night.

    Thanks for reading! :)



  • I'm curious: why do you want this? I'm honestly trying to envision why this would be a good thing to have, but I'm failing and so I need to ask. I apologize for questioning you like this. I'm just genuinely curious and I'm expecting to learn something that might make me want this too. lol :)



  • Hi! That's probably a fair question to be honest - no need to apologise! :P

    Like I said, I've only started using the program recently, so the effect the program has may be different during different seasons due to longer or shorter night cycles. I said I do most of my work during the night and I often go to sleep during the day. A little extra background info by the way - I live in the UK and the current night time lasts about 6 or 7 hours right now. But as soon as I've passed into sun rise, the f.lux brightens up again do full daytime brightness. Even though the sun has risen, it's not actually day time brightness until an hour or two extra into the day - at least not for my eyes anyway ~ I don't want to state that as fact of course!

    So it may seem odd to others I guess, but makes a lot of sense to someone like me with sensitive eyes.
    I hope that makes sense to others in some minor way though!

    Edit:
    In my effort to be clearer in my answer, the sudden ( despite the slow transition the program takes ) causes a bit a strain on my eyes. It would be great if we could make that transition last longer :)
    I actually ended up putting my daytime value to 4500k, because I found the change from night to 6500k a bit too intense.



  • Oh! It's all becoming much clearer now. I apologize for missing that part of your original post regarding how you work mostly at night.

    Do you have f.lux set to the 20-second transition, or the 1-hour transition? It sounds to me like it's set to the 20-second transition.



  • Oh my Thor - I'm such an idiot.
    I apologise for not seeing that very obvious 60m option.

    I think you can safely ignore this request.
    Sorry for wasting your time! ><

    That one hour transition should work wonders for me. Thank you so much! I love this program!

    edit
    It was even in the FAQ - I'm so sorry ><



  • @ShadeBlack said:

    Oh my Thor - I'm such an idiot.
    I apologise for not seeing that very obvious 60m option.

    I think you can safely ignore this request.
    Sorry for wasting your time! ><

    That one hour transition should work wonders for me. Thank you so much! I love this program!

    edit
    It was even in the FAQ - I'm so sorry ><

    Oh I agree about how great this program is! It's almost the best thing since sliced bread!! :)

    Anyway, I don't see this as a waste of time at all because you sought help and I was able to provide it. That makes me happy! So, it's all good.

    By the way, you can flip the daytime and nighttime settings: hold down Ctrl while you move the daytime slider to the left of the nighttime slider, or while you move the nighttime slider to the right of the daytime slider. So, just hold down Ctrl while you move them in opposite directions of what's normally allowed.

    You see, I don't know about anyone else, but I use 6500K until I'm ready to go to sleep. I mean, when I know I'll be going to bed in an hour or two (or, "soon"), I set f.lux to the warmest setting that I can possibly get - and I also lower my monitor's brightness all the way down to its lowest setting and I also dim all of my indoor lighting as much as possible while also only using the warmest color lights that I have - at their dimmest settings. I put that in bold because of how important it is. Without dimming the indoor lights as well, using f.lux becomes silly and pointless. Of course, so does keeping the monitor's brightness at a high level.

    So if it's during the daytime, then this means that I set it to 2700K and I press Alt+Page Down a couple of times while also setting my monitor to its lowest brightness, and I"ll also block the outdoor light as much as possible.

    If it's after sunset, then I will choose 1200K in order to eliminate all blue light output from my monitor. I could use the Dark Room mode, but I tend to dislike it quite a bit due to making it difficult to see certain things (due to the photo negative color effect that it has). I also press Alt+Page Down one or two times with 1200K selected because with my monitor, 1200K at f.lux's full brightness seems a bit too washed out, but using Alt+Page Down once or twice seems to make everything blend nicely again and 1200K becomes enjoyable while I'm winding down before bed. Of course, I also use the dimmest indoor lighting that I can stand, while aiming for the warmest color output from my indoor lights. So, I avoid certain indoor light sources that I have because I know that they have too much blue in their light spectrum output. I tend to prefer old-fashioned incandescent bulbs at very dim settings. I'd like to use red party lights, but that would mean that I'd either need new lamps just for those, or I'd have to swap bulbs every single night. lol This is a work-in-progress, actually.

    So, during my waking hours (whenever that happens to be on any given day), I use 6500K and a very bright monitor setting with very bright indoor lighting around me. If it's after sunrise, then I also allow as much daylight into the house as possible, while also being mindful of blocking the sun in strategic areas in order to avoid making it too warm in here. I have air conditioning, but still. If it's after sunset but still well before sunrise, then I just keep my indoor lighting as bright as possible while also being mindful of electricity usage and also heat output from the lights. I don't like being too warm!

    I guess in other words, I am always operating f.lux manually. I haven't allowed it to do an automatic transition yet, and I've had f.lux for a very long time now. The main reason is, I don't have a predictable or consistent sleep schedule. So, I have to simulate day and night quite often in my home. Like I said, if I'm going to bed in the middle of the day, then I have to make it as dark and as "warm" as possible in here (concerning color temperature), which includes my monitor's brightness and f.lux's color temperature setting. For this reason, I have actually told the f.lux team that I would really love to see the ability to select any color temperature I want regardless of what time it is. I would like to see a third slider for the entire range of color temperatures, all the way from1200K to 6500K, that would override the Night and Daytime sliders.

    The reason why I shared this with you is, it sounds to me like you're allowing f.lux to be at a very warm color temperature at night even if it happens to be during your waking hours while you're working. I don't think there's much of a need for that if you can increase the indoor brightness level using bright indoor lighting in order to offset the harshness of the monitor that's right in your face. :) Sure, if it's in the middle of the night and you're still hours away from going to bed but you have your indoor lighting very low, then yeah a bright monitor that's also at 6500K can be pretty harsh. So if you offset it with bright indoor lighting, then it can kill the harshness completely. I mean, if I'm trying to be awake and alert in the middle of the night (and I have several hours before I will need to go to sleep), then the worst thing that I can do is reduce the amount of blue light that I'm being exposed to because then I get too relaxed.

    I apologize for how long this post is, but to be honest, I feel that this stuff is very important.



  • Update!

    I wanted to make sure I replied to you given the time took for that last response :) However, I didn't have much time to do so during the week.

    I've been using f.lux for just over a week now.
    I said previously that I was using flux to help my eyes out during the night. And it has done - considerably.
    As an added bonus, it also helped my sleeping. Since last week I have flipped over to day time work and night time sleep.
    I have found that the 1 hour transition from the day time 6500k and the night time 2500k works pretty well for me and does get me to go sleep at a more appropriate time.

    It will take a couple extra weeks for me to see if this pattern sticks, because throughout my life, I have had a different sleep schedule on a daily basis, changing a couple hours or so. One week I might be sleeping during the day, and the next during the night. I hope f.lux continues to help me with this condition.

    Thanks for the dimming tip - that's also really good to know and works great! It's almost silly that a desktop doesn't have this kind of feature to begin with. Stranger also since it's available on almost every laptop you can probably find too.

    In terms of indoor lighting, I prefer to not turn them on - the other people in the house don't like it because it wastes electricity when it's only myself awake during the night. Understandable I guess. But if I can keep this daytime pattern going with the use of f.lux, that might not even be a problem any more.

    I like all your tips and reasoning for when working at night though and will certainly keep them in mind if I do slip back into night wake time.

    Thanks again,
    Kyle :)



  • @ShadeBlack said:

    Update!

    I wanted to make sure I replied to you given the time took for that last response :) However, I didn't have much time to do so during the week.

    It's all good! :)

    @ShadeBlack said:

    I've been using f.lux for just over a week now.
    I said previously that I was using flux to help my eyes out during the night. And it has done - considerably.

    Oh for that, I guess I prefer to use a lower monitor brightness so that I don't have to have altered colors. I've tried going for a warmer color temperature instead, but for me I prefer the lower monitor brightness just because of the retailed color accuracy. Not only that though, but it's more alerting. If I choose a warmer color temperature during the middle of my "day", then I tend to begin feeling a little sleepy.,

    @ShadeBlack said:

    As an added bonus, it also helped my sleeping. Since last week I have flipped over to day time work and night time sleep.
    I have found that the 1 hour transition from the day time 6500k and the night time 2500k works pretty well for me and does get me to go sleep at a more appropriate time.

    Success! :) That's exactly how f.lux is advertised to work. However, I would like to tell you that 2700K is still too blue, believe it or not. To be honest with you, I take it all the way down to 1200K, and then I press Alt+Page Down one time because on my monitor, certain things are a bit washed out at 1200K with f.lux at its full brightness setting. So, I dim its brightness one time with one press of Alt+Page Down and then everything looks better. Oh, and I said before, I keep my monitor's brightness all the way down at this time too because I want to be as relaxed as possible.

    @ShadeBlack said:

    It will take a couple extra weeks for me to see if this pattern sticks, because throughout my life, I have had a different sleep schedule on a daily basis, changing a couple hours or so. One week I might be sleeping during the day, and the next during the night. I hope f.lux continues to help me with this condition.

    I have to admit that I have a problem with that too, so I don't use f.lux to help keep me on a regular schedule. I use it to help me relax before going to sleep. The less alerting my environment is, the better! I have Asperger Syndrome too, and I learned fairly recently that people on the Autism spectrum like this naturally produce less melatonin - that we just have a problem in general with melatonin production. So, I actually take at least 3mg of melatonin (one dose) and then wait about 20-30 minutes before going to bed. I have no choice. If I don't do this, then I have trouble falling asleep and staying asleep.

    If I am to be sleeping during the day and if I know that others will be home making noise, then I tend to take 2-3 doses (6-9 mg), depending on how important it is that I get some good sleep. Recently I took 12 mg (4 doses), and that worked tremendously well: others were home and were to be making a lot more living noise than normal, and I didn't even know it. I think I was woken up a couple of times, but I barely remember. From experience, I know that if I had taken maybe 6mg or less, then I would definitely have remembered being woken up and I would have had lots of trouble going back to sleep.

    If I am to be sleeping at night (like maybe going to bed shortly after sunset), then I try to take just 3mg no matter what because I know that my body still produces at least a little bit of melatonin. I can feel it. It's not like I don't produce any. Due to the Autism, I just produce less than most people, and so I have to supplement it.

    I'm also unemployed and I don't really have anything going on, so I am free to have pretty much no sleep routine/schedule/pattern. If I had a full-time job though, then I'd be forced to be awake for work, and sleeping in preparation for the next day of work. I went through that before, and for me, it's very rough.

    Anyway, as long as you kill all blue light at night during the last 2-3 hours of your day and you reduce all light brightness - including your monitor, then you should be set. If you have to buy dimmers for places like the bathroom, then I do recommend it. The more accurately you simulate a sunset indoors, the better. ;)

    @ShadeBlack said:

    Thanks for the dimming tip - that's also really good to know and works great! It's almost silly that a desktop doesn't have this kind of feature to begin with. Stranger also since it's available on almost every laptop you can probably find too.

    You're welcome!

    I am guessing that laptops can have complete software control at the hardware level of the monitor because they might be connected to the motherboard in a different and more direct way than normal monitors are. Either that, or it's just due to necessity. Whatever the case is, they're all-in-one PCs, and so I guess it's expected and thus implemented. It's probably due to the way the monitor is connected to the motherboard though that makes it possible. I dunno. Or it could be that the dimming used for laptops is the same type of dimming that f.lux uses when pressing Alt+Page Down.

    @ShadeBlack said:

    In terms of indoor lighting, I prefer to not turn them on - the other people in the house don't like it because it wastes electricity when it's only myself awake during the night. Understandable I guess.

    Do they feel that electricity can truly be wasted? Or, are they concerned about spending money on electricity for lights when they're not using them? If they believe that electricity can truly be wasted, then I would love for them to be educated because there's no way to truly waste electricity! If they're just concerned though about spending money on electricity for lighting just because you're awake while they're sleeping, then I guess I can understand that. I mean, if I were paying for the electricity and I had someone living with me who was awake while I'm sleeping and thus costing me more money in electricity than I'd otherwise be paying, then I'd either want them to use as little as possible, or pay a part of the electricity bill (sort of like a utilities-only rent or something).

    @ShadeBlack said:

    But if I can keep this daytime pattern going with the use of f.lux, that might not even be a problem any more.

    I hope so! If after a few weeks or a few months you feel that it's truly helping, then post a new thread so that Lorna and Herf (the husband-and-wife f.lux team) know about it. They would LOVE to know!! It would tickle them pink.

    @ShadeBlack said:

    I like all your tips and reasoning for when working at night though and will certainly keep them in mind if I do slip back into night wake time.

    I'd say to just make everything become routine and habit so that you don't have to worry about trying to remember them later. Besides, the dimmer your lighting is (and your monitor) and the less blue there is in all of your lighting and in the light coming from your monitor, then the less "alerting" it is. Oh, and also, the lower the height is of the light (such as ceiling lights vs. desk lamps), the better. Haven't you ever noticed how when the only light on in the room is like a desk lamp, it feels far more relaxing than if you had a ceiling light on even if it's very warm and dim? ;)

    Anyway, I'm here every day, so if for some reason you ever want to get in touch with me, you can send me a PM. I guess you can say that my door is always open like that.



  • @TwoCables said:

    then I would love for them to be educated because there's no way to truly waste electricity!

    Really? You can't think of any way that I could waste electricity? Are you out of your mind?!!

    So leaving a computer on all night when I'm not using it, and it's just idling is just a wonderful use for electricity is it?

    Maybe street lights that eventually light up the clouds from an angle is VERY useful so that the clouds are brighter are a GREAT way to use lighting, instead of putting a shield over it, and dimming the light, so that it actually goes where it is needed.

    There are many vulgar ways to say it, but it's VERY easy to waste electricity -- like leaving on a T.V. when nobody is watching it, or leaving on desktop speakers when there is no sound. I think you get my point, I'll stop here.

    People waste electricity EVERY DAY. I'll add more to this post too.



  • Think about it: electricity is generated. You can't waste it. All you're wasting is the money that you're spending on the electricity that you're not using. It's not like water or some other thing like that. Y'know?

    So, damn... I'm not stupid. lol



  • Electricity is a resource. It usually comes from burning coal, which is not good for the air quality.

    All you're wasting is the money that you're spending on the electricity that you're not using.

    So, in other words, you're using a resource, that you're not actively using yourself at the time, and you're wasting it. You're burning excess coal, and I'm fairly (not a lot) familiar with "base load" or something like that. Anyway, I can't agree with you at all that this magical thing called "electricity" can not be wasted.

    It's just like water, food etc, it's exactly like that, and yes it can be wasted. If you want to disagree that's fine, but that's my "opinion" on the situation if you don't believe it's a fact.

    Let me put it another way:
    Let's say that ALL power was derived from clean sources. Let's imagine that we never have a shortage of electricity. In this case, hell it may be free of charge at that point.

    But, lets say everyone in the whole world leaves their T.V., computers and stove on all day, but they aren't using them. To account for this waste of electricity, more solar farms and wind mills need to be built to produce that much electricity. This can take up a lot of land, and also the manufacturing of it all uses rare materials and it takes a lot away from the earth to get them.

    If everyone didn't waste power, there would be less need for so much power, and we could be by on much much much much less. So yes, it still matters. Especially since we still use coal.



  • I will need to wait until I can find my source. All I remember is, what I read was eye-opening. It left me with the impression that with the tiny difference a few light bulbs make on the power plant, you're really only wasting money by leaving lights on that you're not using. It wasn't saying, "go ahead and stop worrying". No, it was more about how everyone seems to have become obsessed with this whole thing of trying to avoid wasting electricity even though the amount that they're talking about is extremely small and isn't even noticed by the power plant. I think it was trying to say that instead of thinking about it in terms of wasting electricity, think about it in terms of wasting money!

    So in the meantime until I can find my source, I'll have to stop talking. lol I apologize. I didn't intend to get you upset or to irritate you or anything like that at all. The reason why I'm saying this is, it feels like you're almost yelling at me like, "omg you can't be this stupid". I didn't intend for you to feel that way, and I sorta feel bad that I let it get that far.


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